Fussiliers vs IS

Why does a blob of 5 man unupgraded infantry section demolish upgraded panzerfussiliers like they were a joke?

they don't

In what situation? In or out of cover? Equal numbers? Vetted?

Fusiliers arent terribly strong until they're both upgraded, and they get their accuracy bonus from veterancy.

That said: Cover to cover at vet 0, Fusies do beat 5man sections. VERY dramatically out of cover. At vet Fusies crush them flat.

I rarely play PFs unless I go against a Brit player. And when I do, the PFs get absolutely rekt. Models drop like flies. I have since started only making one set of PFs.

I have heard people say PFs are trash until vetted. Most likely the case for me here as it is the early engagements where they are useless in many instances.

I'm willing to bet you were heavily outnumbered and you're just leaving that out because reasons

That said: Cover to cover at vet 0, Fusies do beat 5man sections. VERY dramatically out of cover. At vet Fusies crush them flat.

What a load of BS.

What a load of BS.

What, that upgraded 6man Fusiliers beat 5man Sections? This is assuming they don't have Brens, as the OP suggests. Test it yourself, if you like. I should probably have specified that this is indeed with the Fusiliers having their G43s and sixth man in all cases, not unupgraded. Unupgraded Fusiliers get demolished, of course.

I rarely play PFs unless I go against a Brit player. And when I do, the PFs get absolutely rekt. Models drop like flies. I have since started only making one set of PFs.

I have heard people say PFs are trash until vetted. Most likely the case for me here as it is the early engagements where they are useless in many instances.

Really? I find that I have a lot of success with Panzerfusiliers. They're total garbage early on, being worse combatants than Volksgrenadiers close up. According to seralia, at least, they've actually got better DPS than Volksgrenadiers at 15 range and up... but oftentimes engagements early on will be closer than that, and they can't build their own cover. This is compounded by the fact they're more expensive than Volks. Dependent on how you take engagements, they can make your life pretty hard early on, but it can be worth it later in the game.


When they get vetted, and get their G43s though, they start to be quite good. Their rifles at vet are actually worse relative to Volks rifles than they were at vet0, but they have three of those, and three G43s, giving a better damage output than Volks' three (slightly superior) K98s, and two STGs.

(Against logic, Fusie G43s are individually significantly better than STGs close up, but slightly worse at further ranges... though there are three of them, of course)

What a load of BS.

You can do the tests yourself. G43 PFussiliers do an excellent job vs pre-Bren Sections when fighting Green Cover to Green Cover at variable ranges whereas Volks just eat shit with or without STG's, and you have the bonus of being able to close in with 90% moving accuracy to put the Brit on their back foot even easier to really get the highest damage scaling which will absolutely destroy whatever unit is infront of it. Once the Brit player upgrades Brens you no longer win the cover to cover fights (you put up a decent showing though and can hold at the very least), but you still have the ability to close in with the previously mentioned moving accuracy and the Bren's bonus damage over Enfields becomes nearly irrelevant due to reverse damage scaling resulting in the same obliteration as pre-Bren.

Now, that's in a vacuum. In practical situations the ability to close in on Sections with Pfussiliers is not likely going to be as easy since PFussiliers are a bleed machine with a giant target painted on them wherever they are foprcing focus firing, and unless your opponent misplays early you're not going to have more than 1 or 2 upgraded and vetted late since you just lose the early game with their poor pre G43 performance. So yes while they do have the capability to destroy Sections when used correctly, they have their own flaws that can be capitalized on by a good player.

Every decent Brit player will completely dumpster Füsi openings before the upgrade.
In 3v3+ it might be viable with more res income and your teammates doing their job so you have more time for the upgrade to pay off (dont quote me, i dont play those modes)
In 1v1 and 2v2 i would never go füsis against brits, basically an auto lose on equal skill level

Every decent Brit player will completely dumpster Füsi openings before the upgrade.

+1
All 3 of them will not have any problems.

Every decent Brit player will completely dumpster Füsi openings before the upgrade.
In 3v3+ it might be viable with more res income and your teammates doing their job so you have more time for the upgrade to pay off (dont quote me, i dont play those modes)
In 1v1 and 2v2 i would never go füsis against brits, basically an auto lose on equal skill level

I personally always go for a JLI commander vs brits rather than one with Fusiliers, they're far more effective in my experience. Less so if the enemy goes non-bren commandoes or simply blobs their tommies, i guess. This is just in 2v2s.

I personally always go for a JLI commander vs brits rather than one with Fusiliers, they're far more effective in my experience. Less so if the enemy goes non-bren commandoes or simply blobs their tommies, i guess. This is just in 2v2s.

If I start with 4 mainlines I usually opt for a Fusilier as the fourth. The 6 men, G43s, and snares are just too good to pass. Not to mention they can actually fight long range against Bren sections.

If I start with 4 mainlines I usually opt for a Fusilier as the fourth. The 6 men, G43s, and snares are just too good to pass. Not to mention they can actually fight long range against Bren sections.

One or two of them are great for making sure a JT doesn't get flanked. They're nice in 4v4's due to the survivability after upgrading. I'm not sure why a OKW player would want to mainline them against Sections, especially considering that JLI's and Obers are much better against sections.

Most of the time when I see people complain about their performance in a game, it's because they have 2-3 PF's with G43's, 1-2 with Zooks, and want to use them in a big blob like they are Hydralisks.

If I start with 4 mainlines I usually opt for a Fusilier as the fourth. The 6 men, G43s, and snares are just too good to pass. Not to mention they can actually fight long range against Bren sections.

Fusiliers have mediocre long range dmg. Compared to lmg squads their long range dmg is even dogshit. You always want to close distance vs everything except rangers or shocks.

The only real advantage they have compared to volks is the flare. They are worse than volks combatwise early on and not nearly as good as obers later on. Since all allied early vehicles got nerfed even the snare isnt that useful anymore. Jli and falls are just way more useful and supplement volks better.

Edit: Some numbers.

vet3 sections unupgraded / vet 5 upgraded füssies / vet 5 unupgraded Obers
Max range dmg: 18,43 / 17,24 / 20,67

Conclusio: Upgraded Füssies lose vs unupgraded Section long range (even out of cover)

Fusiliers have mediocre long range dmg. Compared to lmg squads their long range dmg is even dogshit. You always want to close distance vs everything except rangers or shocks.

The only real advantage they have compared to volks is the flare. They are worse than volks combatwise early on and not nearly as good as obers later on. Since all allied early vehicles got nerfed even the snare isnt that useful anymore. Jli and falls are just way more useful and supplement volks better.

Edit: Some numbers.

vet3 sections unupgraded / vet 5 upgraded füssies / vet 5 unupgraded Obers
Max range dmg: 18,43 / 17,24 / 20,67

Conclusio: Upgraded Füssies lose vs unupgraded Section long range (even out of cover)

You're not taking into account the fact that Fusies have six men, either squad's EHP, nor the fact that a significant portion of the Fusie's damage is loaded onto their G43s, meaning they lose significantly less DPS for each model loss (Especially before they lose their fourth model).

Raw DPS isnt a meaningful statistic by itself as far as unit performance is concerned. Test these fights in-game and see how they actually do.

Also: Are the numbers you're giving for Sections for if they're in, or out of cover? They have a different DPS profile dependent on which you're looking at, y'know.

If I start with 4 mainlines I usually opt for a Fusilier as the fourth. The 6 men, G43s, and snares are just too good to pass. Not to mention they can actually fight long range against Bren sections.

Four volks into fusies? That feels like rather too much investment into non-elite infantry to me. Fusies are a Volk "replacement", not so much a "supplemental" unit. I'd normally go one/three volks into one/three fusies, dependent on the matchup/mode. A fifth infantry squad would be better off being an Ober rather than a fusie, if damage dealing is what you want.

Also: Upgraded Fusies still get molested by Bren sections, I'm afraid.

Also: Upgraded Fusies still get molested by Bren sections, I'm afraid.

In my experience anything gets molested by bren sections , apart from vet 2 lmg/stg Obers or vet 2 falls with upgrade(and they still can suffer depending on the cover).

Why does a blob of 5 man unupgraded infantry section demolish upgraded panzerfussiliers like they were a joke?

Because a blob has more units than 1. Basic math.

You're not taking into account the fact that Fusies have six men, either squad's EHP

Infantry Sections have more EHP at vet 3 than vet 5 Füssierliers despite having one man less simply because their RA is way better.

Infantry Sections have more EHP at vet 3 than vet 5 Füssierliers despite having one man less simply because their RA is way better.

Only if you compare vs 5 men Fusiliers.
Otherwise it is 606 HP of IS vs 623 of Panzerfusiliers.