So UKF rework when?

OH Blitz provides 0.25 RA
OKW Combat Blitz does provide AT power in the form of 25% RoF + 20% acc

The Cromwell swapped the bonuses from vet 2 with vet 3. Basically traded it's main gun effectiveness for mobility.


Overall Cromwell is not that much of an issue.

yes that was my point OP called it meh

UKF do start with one healing section, sure, but unlike all other faction's healing options their primary heal source is a mainline combat unit, that is expected to be on the frontlines. This means that healing is much less available to other UKF units when the player goes Assault Tommies, as the sole healing source won't always be in a position to heal their other units. (Not to mention the fact that Sections can instead opt to upgrade to a pyro section, which would be entirely unviable without another source of healing.)

You can do without snares (Sort of), but you can't really do without healing.

I mean, I'd prefer they just get base healing like SOV... or allow Sappers to build a stripped-down version of the Forward Assembly that acts simply as a healing bunker. Medics do feel like a bit of a bandaid solution... and do cost population.

tommy medics are not their sole healing though. thats what im saying. the FA can be healing as well. its expensive, but that COULD be tuned (move some of the cost to non medic upgrades so that the FA can be a cheaper soft retreat point with medics OR base healing)
if brits are without healing its because they opted to not have it. they dont need an entirely new, entirely more cost efficient method that can also be used to cap territory in a pinch...

Yup, but what are the best solutions?

Yup, but what are the best solutions?

Not sure if there are "best solutions". Until performance of Bolster + Upgrades + Weapons is not sorted out, we are just throwing shit till something sticks.


It doesn't help that UKF is probable the most hated faction and the one least played.

Not sure if there are "best solutions". Until performance of Bolster + Upgrades + Weapons is not sorted out, we are just throwing shit till something sticks.


It doesn't help that UKF is probable the most hated faction and the one least played.

I'm still positing that the Officer could be somewhat of a solution if it were turned into a starting fiveman rifle squad, instead of strictly the CQB squad it is now. If UKF started with a "Good" rifle squad then Bolster might be less an issue.

A solution could be going the Soviet way, 1 make RE default 5 men, 2 bolster cost lowered to 10 fuel , now cost munitions to upgrade each sqaud of IS for 1 more man but occupy 1 weapon slot, the upgrade could remove the out cover debuff and give the scoped rifle too and increase sight, make it a choice instead of a no brainer, either 4 men 2 bren or 5 men 1 bren, u could even buff bren then

A solution could be going the Soviet way, 1 make RE default 5 men, 2 bolster cost lowered to 10 fuel , now cost munitions to upgrade each sqaud of IS for 1 more man but occupy 1 weapon slot, the upgrade could remove the out cover debuff and give the scoped rifle too and increase sight, make it a choice instead of a no brainer, either 4 men 2 bren or 5 men 1 bren, u could even buff bren then

That's a pretty good suggestion and in line with Relic's original idea of Brits having to make meaningful choices between defensive and offensive capabilities in each tech tier. Then we just also need a reason why anyone would ever tech Bofors and Brits can start to enjoy slightly less one-dimensional gameplay.

I'd like to see something like:
Bolster not global
Choice between bolster/medic/pyro
EACH take a slobuff Bren slightly

This means there are effectively 4 versions of core Tommy to chose from, each with their own "niche" durability, healing, scouting/smoke/arty support or firepower

Look at giving unupgraded tommies a snare when nades are teched giving more CHOICE to the player.

Emplacements redesigned to have most functionality locked behind being garrisoned but cost and upkeep reduced dramatically to compensate. Furthermore, health slashed but with a damage reduction modifier WHEN GARRISONED that makes them more durable

This means garrisons are strong prepared positions but not no micro cancer. If abandoned they are easy to destroy.

Exclusivity of bofors and AEC removed as both are fairly important parts of the lineup-AA at the cost of the centaur is too expensive (ost at least has pintles and the 222 as AA so they don't have to shell out for ostwind)
Bofors as part of rework does not engage ground targets unless garrisoned.

Something else fitting of the hammer/anvil style in place of aec/ Bofors tech slots
Suggestioms include:
H- cheaper stock infantry abilities and weapon rack weapons
A- faster cover build/ maybe improved trenches?

H-remove cover bonus mechanic
A-double down with increased bonuses and penalties.

Something in line and provide interesting choice to tune to playstyles

Mortar pit-only 1 mortar fires unless garrisoned. Pyro sections can call in a mortar barrage without smoke with no range requirements if mortar pit is up

Garrisoned pits fire both mortars in both auto fire and barrages.

17lb is probably fine given the whole 2 times Ive seen it since Brit release...

AEC still requires a path to be chosen to unlock (for timing purposes) but teching up does not. Bofors TBD if this is necessary given the changes to it

The rest of the faction really inst awful. Sappers changes could also be applied with stage 1 hammer/ anvil changes. Something like better target size with hammer or faster build times with anvil or a proper demo charge or something like that.

I'd like to see the comet and churchill limited to 1 at a time as well and buffed slightly, especially in pop cap to compensate so the cromwell sees more sunlight and help clean up team games a bit.

Are people really complaining about the brits? They are def not UP. Even less so OP. What's so wrong with the brits? Can anyone give a valid argument based on some numbers and not "it feels...." about all the OP/UP stuff?

It's more of a design problem, really they are weak but once they get 2 bren 5 men they are strong so they had to balance then making really bad at 1 Vs 1 early

Are people really complaining about the brits? They are def not UP. Even less so OP. What's so wrong with the brits? Can anyone give a valid argument based on some numbers and not "it feels...." about all the OP/UP stuff?

So they re OP to the point no pro wants to play them in ML4 Championship? Are you playing the same game as us? :v

So they re OP to the point no pro wants to play them in ML4 Championship? Are you playing the same game as us? :v

It's not that "no pro" wants to play them. There has always been some preference towards some factions.
It's that the BEST UKF player and the winner of the tournament tells you not to play UKF if you want to win at all.

At least until the latest patch preview version.

Jesus christ just turn UKF into ostheer already. The whole UKF faction is just rollercoaster of balancing efforts around the design of not having snares on mainline which just is a failure. Balance team has no option left but to buff its mainline to ridiculous levels to try and balance this. Any non doctrinal composition designed to fight another their army is by balance design worse than theirs because we have to compensate that they have no snares on their mainline. Also they do not start with utilitarian unit like pioneer which means all their fielded MP is just pure combat ability. So in order to combat this, equally skilled axis player always has to commit to either super sweaty or cancerous strategies such as sniper, ostruppen +222 rush, ass grens etc in order to try and overcome this early game imbalance which leads to headaches on both sides and no one having fun.

Are people really complaining about the brits? They are def not UP. Even less so OP. What's so wrong with the brits? Can anyone give a valid argument based on some numbers and not "it feels...." about all the OP/UP stuff?

This is what I've observed, so others feel free to correct where I am mistaken.



Brit IS make early infantry engagements fairly braindead, as they stomp both Grenadiers and Volksgrenadiers (Volks quite severely),And can burst down Sturmpioneers before they can get into position to provide DPS. This gets even worse when Bolster is added to the mix. The UC also provides a TON of value/Bleed to the Brit early game.

(Alternately, during the times IS are undertuned at 4 men to be "balanced" at five, IS get walked over by Grens and Volks when the're 4 men, and then proceed to bully them after bolster... until the LeIG/Mortar light vehicle arrives).

But they get hardcountered after the initial phase of the game by dual PAK/Raketen and dual LeIG (And presumably OST mortar, though not as severely due to its lower accuracy) because they have no nondoctrinal indirect outside of the Mortar pit (Which can be easily defeated using PAKs or indirect... or even just infantry if you are able to push the brit away for a very short time).

The PAK/Raketen delete any armour that comes their way, while the LeIG deletes IS squads, as they must constantly hug cover to be combat-effective. Neither of these options can be easily dealt with by the Brit. The Brit can similarly not deal with an MG very easily due to a lack of indirect/smoke.


(Disclaimer: 2v2 experience, I don't like 1v1s)

As it stands, my games against a Brit go as follows: They crush my Volksgrenadiers at the beginning of the game due to the combination of IS, Vickers, and occasionally the UC, none of which I have a good answer to at the beginning of the game.

Then I build my Battlegroup HQ, fart out a LeIG or two, an MG or a FlakHT, and a Raketen, and the Brit is then able to do exactly nothing, and I walk him back to base. I can imagine the Brit player does not find this a particularly fun thing to experience, and I imagine it's somewhat similar in 1v1.

EDIT: Oh, in the case of OST, a sniper totally dominates a Brit player, with no real answer to be found until they tech up. A bit of a dichotomy.

So they re OP to the point no pro wants to play them in ML4 Championship? Are you playing the same game as us? :v

Not wanting to play the game in pro tournament is not an indication of a good/bad faction. The seldom games I spectate I often am left wondering how those people are called "pro", based on decisions/builds they make. And how little creativity there is... which I can understand since there is money on the line. That's the problem, those no-life people that play video games as the main (only) source of income dictate the balance. On one hand, they know the game inside and out, but on the other, they will always go for the easiest and most brain-dead tactic they can to net them the win. Hence people say BS like brits are UP or brits are OP or this is UP or that is OP. Pros don't play them because they do not have as straightforward tactics like soviets or OKW do.

All a load of malarkey. Once the money is not the propagating factor for pros (eg, they get a job), you'll see a lot more balls-to-the-wall plays than you have now, and a lot more new content in terms of strategies.

It's not that "no pro" wants to play them. There has always been some preference towards some factions.
It's that the BEST UKF player and the winner of the tournament tells you not to play UKF if you want to win at all.

At least until the latest patch preview version.

That's BS. Sorry but listening to pro players is a recipe for disaster. They have their own mentality and vision of the game and think that brits are totally UP. Anyone that says a thing like that can get a check mark in that box "Bullshit"



Still haven't heard a single argument except for the "Pro" scene (which is laughable). Any argument for brits being OP or UP (my opinion is that they are perfectly viable from 1v1 to 4v4, a.k.a ... balanced)

This is what I've observed, so others feel free to correct where I am mistaken.



Brit IS make early infantry engagements fairly braindead, as they stomp both Grenadiers and Volksgrenadiers (Volks quite severely),And can burst down Sturmpioneers before they can get into position to provide DPS. This gets even worse when Bolster is added to the mix. The UC also provides a TON of value/Bleed to the Brit early game.

(Alternately, during the times IS are undertuned at 4 men to be "balanced" at five, IS get walked over by Grens and Volks when the're 4 men, and then proceed to bully them after bolster... until the LeIG/Mortar light vehicle arrives).

But they get hardcountered after the initial phase of the game by dual PAK/Raketen and dual LeIG (And presumably OST mortar, though not as severely due to its lower accuracy) because they have no nondoctrinal indirect outside of the Mortar pit (Which can be easily defeated using PAKs or indirect... or even just infantry if you are able to push the brit away for a very short time).

The PAK/Raketen delete any armour that comes their way, while the LeIG deletes IS squads, as they must constantly hug cover to be combat-effective. Neither of these options can be easily dealt with by the Brit. The Brit can similarly not deal with an MG very easily due to a lack of indirect/smoke.


(Disclaimer: 2v2 experience, I don't like 1v1s)

As it stands, my games against a Brit go as follows: They crush my Volksgrenadiers at the beginning of the game due to the combination of IS, Vickers, and occasionally the UC, none of which I have a good answer to at the beginning of the game.

Then I build my Battlegroup HQ, fart out a LeIG or two, an MG or a FlakHT, and a Raketen, and the Brit is then able to do exactly nothing, and I walk him back to base. I can imagine the Brit player does not find this a particularly fun thing to experience, and I imagine it's somewhat similar in 1v1.

EDIT: Oh, in the case of OST, a sniper totally dominates a Brit player, with no real answer to be found until they tech up. A bit of a dichotomy.

Ok. Valuable arguments, thank you. The beginning of the game is a back and forth, which is fine. There will always be one faction that will come out on top at each stage of the game, unless mistakes are made. Sturmpios can turn the tide if you send them to the area of the map that has some CQC so they do not need to run over field to get to an IS squad. Things like that are the "mistake".

About the mid game, a brit player can dish out an AT gun. About the leig, flank it. The map is usually big enough for a lane or two that can get you behind them. Usually takes time since you have to go the long way around, but it's usually worth it. Took down plenty of tanks/indirects that way. Don't see why it wouldn't apply to 2v2 as well. Especially since people get cold feet quite often and do not dare to push while you flank..... Furthermore, I've never ever seen any attempt at flanking in most of the games I've seen/played. Seldom are the people that actively use flanks and cutoffs. Just wave after wave of fighting over a fuel point and the faction that has a better dig in squad usually wins.


The scenario that you describe, about farting out shit. Seen it plenty of times. Flanking is completely viable until you get an upper hand. Something that is seldom done in this game, 2v2+ (1v1 is pretty much one squad flanking, I'm talking about a big flank).

unfortunately they are a lost cause.

Only mobile Arty will save that faction

For the record, you don't need to flank with sturms to beat tommies. Sturms will win attacking across no cover into tommies sitting in green cover ever since their damage was reduced from 16 to 12. I tested it about 20 times (not the BEST sample size but it was tedious enough and reliable enough for me) unless 2 Sturm models drop before they get to point blank tommies will lose. Across no cover at all, in a head long charge in the "defensive infantry" with no utility in green cover.

The problem with UKF is every side upgrade u get will hammer ur timing to everything else. IS got 3 upgrades: Nade, Weapon Barrack, and Bolster. Get any of this and most of the time ur IS will be hunted down by Axis LV, because somehow dev want Sappper to have snare, not mainline. If u want to counter LV, the only option is to rush AEC-and LV with almost no AI, so Axis Inf just walk toward it and 3 faust. But then still less range than Puma and most of the time lose to it. Vicker HMG is no help because somehow it is designed to kill not to suppress so again Axis Infs just walk to it and nade/flame nade it. No mobile indirect so u get to be bombed out of existence. U want to flank enemy MG or Mortar, but without upgrade how can u kill them fast? MG42/34 just pack up and pack down again and suppress u, mortar just retreats or Leig just walk back.So u stuck with a paradox, Upgrade IS to fight Axis Inf but get destroyed by LV or tank rush, or get LV or tank and keep bleeding hard because IS is suck after 5 mins without upgrade and get slaughtered by PzGren or Ober. Also no counter to blob because no rocket arty.