elevation and weapons

Sanders once had a nice test pic of this. But no, focus fire means that a shot that missed the accuracy role might do damage to models in proximity.
But that's as much knowledge as there is out there. No one has tested it properly to try to find out how it works exactly.


I think this "projectile" is only a visual representation. If it is calculated as a projectile, then it had no meaning to the actual gameplay as far as I know.

I have done some testing and it does appear that "focus fire" is a weapon property, and not a squad property, as I had thought it to be. Are you sure it's the case that "missed" shots can strike nearby models, though, and not that accurate hits are spread across models instead? The former would imply that "focus fire: True" (That Obsersoldaten K98s and their MG34 seems to possess) is a negative quality rather than a positive one, and that weapon accuracy isnt actually strictly useful to calculate DPS. I'm assuming in this case that focus fire being "true" is the quality of damage NOT being spread, because that's the most logical way to talk about it.

I was usually of the mind that the tracers that units fire are indeed just visual, and not meaningful in a gameplay sense, but the fact that a squad can damage intervening obstacles when firing implies that there is some "projectile" calculation being done for small-arms.

Let me clarify something:
1) Mortars and similar units as far as I know do not go through accuracy checks at. For instance the pack howitzer has an accuracy of 1 and it would always hit if did go trough accuracy check.

As I already have pointed outed different weapons types like "ballistic", "explosion", "Big explosion" and the projectiles behave differently.

2) Focus fire is weapon property and not squad property and it does allow the damage to spread to more than one model. You can clearly see this with kubel that damage more than entity when it fire.

3) Small arm do not have projectiles because it would really mess up the engine to calculate the thousand of round fired in 4vs4 game. They can damage world objects PTRS destroying cover is prime example but that was done by the engine without a projectile being involved.

3) Shared veterancy is gained when the unit near gain veterancy (as far as I know) and since the target unit gain veterancy for taking damage the unit with shared veterancy would also gain.

The shared veterancy does not work with all units but specific units like infatry, hmg, mortars. Else units with shared veterancy near a tank would gain XP like crazy

4) Think faust bug is improved but not fixed completely.

Hope this helps.

1) Fair enough, strange that Lelic decided to do it that way. If I were designing it I would probably just have given these units zero accuracy instead, rather than having them skip the "accuracy" stage of firing. Perhaps there's some reason they do it like this.

2) Interesting, it does seem to be the case that it is weapon-based, rather than squad-based. Read the reply to Hannibal for further thoughts. Giving a BAR, for example, to an Ober squad does mean that that Ober model will start to spread damage, rather than it be focused on a single unit like his squadmates. Very interesting.

3) There's still a "projectile" (Not literally a physical projectile, I'm talking about a hitscan raycast, "projectile" is used for convenience) calculation being done when any model fires a weapon in this case, as the engine still needs to calculate whether there's an object in the way, and whether the squad "hit" it. There's no real way to get around having a raycast or some other calculation done here.

3(4)) I'm aware that there are tables defining what units/actions an unit can gain shared veterancy from, I was just unaware of the specifics for various units (And that model deaths give experience but cannot "level" shared veterancy, which from further testing appears to be the case for any unit. Damage taken/models lost can give veterancy, but you cannot gain a "level" of veterancy through taking damage or losing models. You must do damage to an opponent to level veterancy)

4(5)) I haven't seen it happen since the supposed "fix", but if it isnt yet gone entirely, I'm all for further tweaks.

You can test that in this mod, which has physical bullets (projectiles) : https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2162940169
It seems the engine can handle it just fine.

Nice work.

Point is small arm do not have projectiles...

(I do have to point out that pop cap is limited to 45 and not 100, and squad are smaller and have different pop.

I also did not see any projectiles from small arm although I did see effects on snow.

In the 4vs4 game I tried was had problems with responsiveness although I that might not be related to projectiles)

Nice work.

Point is small arm do not have projectiles...

No, point is, is that projectiles are not messing up the engine as you wrongfully claim.

No, point is, is that projectiles are not messing up the engine as you wrongfully claim.

Admittedly part of it was that I misspoke, when talking about "projectiles", when instead I meant mere raycasts.

I have done some testing and it does appear that "focus fire" is a weapon property, and not a squad property, as I had thought it to be. Are you sure it's the case that "missed" shots can strike nearby models, though, and not that accurate hits are spread across models instead? The former would imply that "focus fire: True" (That Obsersoldaten K98s and their MG34 seems to possess) is a negative quality rather than a positive one, and that weapon accuracy isnt actually strictly useful to calculate DPS. I'm assuming in this case that focus fire being "true" is the quality of damage NOT being spread, because that's the most logical way to talk about it.

I was usually of the mind that the tracers that units fire are indeed just visual, and not meaningful in a gameplay sense, but the fact that a squad can damage intervening obstacles when firing implies that there is some "projectile" calculation being done for small-arms.

EDIT:
Just check Elchino's post below, there you have it. Apparently works differently than I said.
Show Spoiler

Focus fire was BELIEVED to be an extra DPS.

Further testing done by several members of the community shown that it seems that it's just targeting random models which are close to the primary target PRE roll of either hitting or not.

https://www.coh2.org/topic/36347/cruzz-s-the-more-you-know/post/778759

Focus fire was BELIEVED to be an extra DPS.

Further testing done by several members of the community shown that it seems that it's just targeting random models which are close to the primary target PRE roll of either hitting or not.

https://www.coh2.org/topic/36347/cruzz-s-the-more-you-know/post/778759

This aligns with what I thought was the case, if true. The only two things that seem to be different from what I originally believed is that A: The targeting of random models can spread to other squads, not just the one originally targeted, and B: That it's a weapon property, not a squad property.

In any case, this is really quite interesting. I wonder what the radius for checks is? (And I also wonder if it allows a model to damage another that is otherwise "out of range")

This aligns with what I thought was the case, if true. The only two things that seem to be different from what I originally believed is that A: The targeting of random models can spread to other squads, not just the one originally targeted, and B: That it's a weapon property, not a squad property.

In any case, this is really quite interesting. I wonder what the radius for checks is? (And I also wonder if it allows a model to damage another that is otherwise "out of range")

Probable easy to test by hiding a squad behind a shotblocker and targeting a squad which is in sight nearby.

Probable easy to test by hiding a squad behind a shotblocker and targeting a squad which is in sight nearby.

The answer is yes, surprisingly.

Show Spoiler

Methodology:

Allied conscript squad set to "no autoattack", as well as being invulnerable. Fog of war was then enabled. Allied conscript squad set to "enemy", at which point the four MG42 fire upon the conscript squad on their side of the wall, instantly pinning it (but doing no damage, obviously, as it is invulnerable.)

The squad is then returned to allied control to stop the MG42 firing.

As can be seen, the squad on the other side of the wall, which was completely obscured from sight (and therefore targeting) still takes damage, and is also pinned. Apparently this lets you shoot through walls.

The test was repeated with a non-invulnerable squad, to ensure that wasn't affecting anything. Same result.

A further test was done with a camouflaged unit next to the Conscripts, who were also damaged and suppressed when the Conscripts were shot at, despite being cloaked. Damage to the cloaked squad through this also immediately pulls the cloaked squad out of camouflage, allowing it to be directly targeted.

Nice test, that's quite interesting.

Nice test, that's quite interesting.

Interesting, but I'm not sure if it has any practical value. It probably does mean you shouldnt let your snipers wander near any squads being actively shot with "Focus Fire: False" weapons, though. Other than that, i dont believe there's a way to actually make use of this information in-game.

the focus fire results are indeed quite interesting. well done and wall hack confirmed! what would be great to know is how much of the total dps is spread out to nearby entities. had a quick look in the editor but couldn't find any multiplier or similar. does anyone have more info on this?

Interesting, but I'm not sure if it has any practical value. It probably does mean you shouldnt let your snipers wander near any squads being actively shot with "Focus Fire: False" weapons, though. Other than that, i dont believe there's a way to actually make use of this information in-game.

well the getting-suppressed-through-walls-by-accident part is worthwhile to know for sure.

well the getting-suppressed-through-walls-by-accident part is worthwhile to know for sure.

Its not something you can actively make use of, though. It requires that a squad be practically hugging either side of a wall, which isnt really something that's going to happen, and certainly not something you can actively MAKE happen.

Though it does let you know you shouldn't make your own units hug either side of a wall like that either... as though there's ever any reason to do that to begin with.