Soviet tech change suggestion

The T-34/76's strength is not initial timing, but cost effectiveness.

no reason for it to come soo late regardless

You can get the second one before or at the same time as Ostheer can get their second P4, you can throw one away and trade well against any vehicle bigger than a StuG.

with ram? the ability you just nerfed?

You can get about 3 for 2 P4s.

3 T-34s cost alot more than 2 P4s and will lose to 2 P4s in a long range shootout and bleed more than 2 P4s

After big tank engagements with multiple losses for both sides, it's the Soviets who can replace their armor the fastest.

correct but this isnt thanks to the T-34 at all but rather the zis3/katy which eliminate AT guns with ease... thus having an AT edge

youre misattributing that to the T-34 when the unit has no AT capacity outside of ram whatsoever...

It's easier to achieve critical mass with it than any other vehicle. And with ZiS guns as support,

mostly thanks to the zis not the T-34... the zis which you just nerfed

it does about as well at fighting infantry and tanks as a P4 for a much lower price.

P4 actually has more long to medium anti infantry despite the high hull mg damage... the P4s gun fires faster has slightly better scatter and it can get pintle...

That is what makes the T-34/76 unique, and it generally synergises really well with Soviets' attrition based late game strength.

which you just nerfed

Messing around with the timings would likely cause a snowball effect (fast first tank leads to fast second tank, etc.) which would probably then lead to nerfs (like a higher unit cost) and turn it into just another medium tank.

maybe timings dont matter that much in your 4v4 paradise but timings are INCREDIBLY important in 1v1/2v2... this is something you can never understand as an exclusive teamgame player...

Which is why i specifically wrote: "Nerf as much as needed the T70" and at some point i think i answered to someone to make it a P2 clone.

The only reason T3 is delayed so much is because how strong the T70 is (even with the current nerfs on preview).

idk, i just wanna see the t70 be nerfed until it's soul is gone. it feels like for the sake of balance all asymmetry is being taken out.

idk, i just wanna see the t70 be nerfed until it's soul is gone. it feels like for the sake of balance all asymmetry is being taken out.

I hope you realize that is interweaved to the arrival of ultimate chad conscripts, penals, M5s, SU-76 and maxims.
One will never happen without the other.

idk, i just wanna see the t70 be nerfed until it's soul is gone. it feels like for the sake of balance all asymmetry is being taken out.

The unit keeps getting nerf patch after patch and it has historically been used as an excuse towards design/power budget on the faction.

Modders have said in the past that they would like to see the T70 as P2 clone but we they mostly had constraints in scope to improve other aspect of the factions to account for it. I think this is that one special time to do it.

Not sure how nerfing something is suddenly removing "asymmetry". The unit will not be removed nor it's features like scouting/capping are gonna be removed. It will still be a light vehicle focused on AI.

The problem with using a community balance team as opposed to Relic designers to make balance changes is they probably don't have the authority to do big sweeping reworks to faction design which is needed to fix Soviets. For example, it would make way more sense to swap out Guards and Penals so that Penals are doctrinal and Guards are non Doctrinal. Then Guards would overlap with Conscripts much less and Penals can be made way more quirky since they'd be a doctrinal call-in. But that won't happen, there also might not be the right voice lines for call-ins/unlocks and whatnot. Non doctrinal Penals are basically impossible to make interesting, because either they are cheaper so they overlap with Cons more, or they are made more elite so they overlap with Guards or Shocks. So then option C is to make them cheesy and have obnoxious stuff for a pretty base-line squad.

Well... i preferred their first original design, which made them 360mp 6man grenadiers with G43s. They were the equivalent to PGs.

The game was balanced differently (much higher tech cost, less starting resources) with units having way less utility. So it was more marked how much you lost on map control when teching as an opening although you were compensated by old maxim, sniper, clowncar units.

While i don't like the current version, i think it's salvageable if pushed further in the AT department rather than been average AI with soft AT.

The T-34/76's strength is not initial timing, but cost effectiveness. You can get the second one before or at the same time as Ostheer can get their second P4, you can throw one away and trade well against any vehicle bigger than a StuG. You can get about 3 for 2 P4s. After big tank engagements with multiple losses for both sides, it's the Soviets who can replace their armor the fastest. It's easier to achieve critical mass with it than with any other vehicle. And with ZiS guns as support, it does about as well at fighting infantry and tanks as a P4 for a much lower price.

That is what makes the T-34/76 unique, and it generally synergises really well with Soviets' attrition based late game strength. Messing around with the timings would likely cause a snowball effect (fast first tank leads to fast second tank, etc.) which would probably then lead to nerfs (like a higher unit cost) and turn it into just another medium tank.

But that's the problem. You expect both sides to have equal resources at their disposal and to somehow expect them to "efficiently" trade. That same logic was been brought up whenever heavy tanks were OP. You can have "X" amount of mediums who in "theory" can deal much more dmg, have much higher total HP pool", be in different parts of the map, etc.

PIV: 350/120/12pop
T34: 300/90/10

2PIV: 700/240/24
3T34: 900/270/30

Accounting for tech:

OH: T1+BP1+T2+BP2+T3+Medics = 770mp (-30 initial dif) / 175f (-20) / 60

SU: T2+AT nade+T3+T4+Medics = 990 / 205 (-20)

Now the cost look like this when you take tech into account. We can skip initial fuel cause they are the same.

2PIV + Tech: 1440mp / 415f / 60 mu
3PIV + Tech: 1790mp / 535f / 60

3T34+ Tech: 1890mp / 475f


The uniqueness of the T34 is (rightfully so) getting nerfed in this preview patch. Something similar happened to the Su76 unique "free barrage" 3 years ago and we know where that left the unit.

I can see justification (prior to any T70 nerfs) on why soviets T3 has such a timing but i find it a really poor excuse to say the T34/76 timing is the current one because you can suddenly somehow spam it 35/40 mins into the game.

Make t4 cheaper with only the t34 in it. Make mobilize more expensive to compensate and available in t3 but required for Katy and su85. Then you can rush the t34, or invest in infantry but in the end you still pay full price to be competitive against heavy Armour and blobs.

The T-34/76's strength is not initial timing, but cost effectiveness...

It's easier to achieve critical mass with it than with any other vehicle...

And with ZiS guns as support, it does about as well at fighting infantry and tanks as a P4 for a much lower price.

If you are right:

1. The manpower cost of ZIS + T34 is much higher than the manpower cost of a PZIV on a faction that relies more on manpower than other factions (but for example less on munition).

2. Talking about population I get 3x PZIV (36 pop) for 3x T34 and one ZIS (37 pop). I would rather take the 3x PZIV if you ask me. Something seems to be odd with the population comparison if getting a critical mass is the concept of a T34. The direct population comparison of PZIV to T34 is 5 to 6 (both 60 population). Thats feels absolutely wrong for a cheap mass tank.

I hope you realize that is interweaved to the arrival of ultimate chad conscripts, penals, M5s, SU-76 and maxims.
One will never happen without the other.

"chad conscripts" can't believe that's a thing, i remember when they used to be garbage.

"chad conscripts" can't believe that's a thing, i remember when they used to be garbage.

Because they nerfed their cheese tools.

Old Oorah for free/5 muni.
Multikilling trip wire flare.
Ghost sandbag spam.
Death crit molotovs.
PPSH + HTD
PTRS killing support weapons.

There had been plenty of chad conscript patches.

Because they nerfed their cheese tools.

Old Oorah for free/5 muni.
Multikilling trip wire flare.
Ghost sandbag spam.
Death crit molotovs.
PPSH + HTD
PTRS killing support weapons.

There had been plenty of chad conscript patches.

I, for one, prefer to fight these current chad conscripts to the variants you're describing.

I, for one, prefer to fight these current chad conscripts to the variants you're describing.

Definitely. Probable it applies to both, the ones using them and the ones fighting against them even if some people dislike 7 man cons behind sandbags.

Definitely. Probable it applies to both, the ones using them and the ones fighting against them even if some people dislike 7 man cons behind sandbags.

7 man cons behind sandbags simply have a role they perform very well, without having the annoying cheesy features of previous

They can be hard to deal with, but they don't feel unfair or inconsistent or anything, so I personally don't mind how they are now. Units filling a niche is cool and good.

Strangely, I still kind of prefer Penals to Cons when I play SOV... though I always feel the lack of AT and MG solutions.

Ghost sandbag spam.

I'm pretty sure both sections and volks (and possibly riflemen with 2 commanders) could do that too. Nothing unique to cons about that.

I'm pretty sure both sections and volks (and possibly riflemen with 2 commanders) could do that too. Nothing unique to cons about that.

They were more robust and bigger in size. There used to be a player called Lenny which basically had a "100 sandbag spam" way of playing.

Imagine losing a point and returning 30s later to discover you can't maneuver around because someone spammed 15 5% HP sandbags all around the zone.

They were more robust and bigger in size. There used to be a player called Lenny which basically had a "100 sandbag spam" way of playing.

Imagine losing a point and returning 30s later to discover you can't maneuver around because someone spammed 15 5% HP sandbags all around the zone.

Sandbag Ghosting being removed was one of the best changes the team ever made. This recent Wire change rivals it.

They were more robust and bigger in size. There used to be a player called Lenny which basically had a "100 sandbag spam" way of playing.

Imagine losing a point and returning 30s later to discover you can't maneuver around because someone spammed 15 5% HP sandbags all around the zone.

LOL. all a part of playing a multiplayer game.

LOL. all a part of playing a multiplayer game.

I know but i'm explaining why Con ghost sandbag was more cheesy and unique. This was not an issue with any of the other 4 factions. At least in terms of sandbag spam.

On the other hand, we had ghost unbreakable wire from sturmpios or release UKF spamming trenches.