RNG

I would argue it's the opposite actually. Having extreme RNG like MGC and abandon that can turn a game around may actually deter players from making risky - and thus exciting - plays because they fear it might backfire on them. At least in tournaments.

This is the same thing I'd argue, honestly. Having exciting plays in your own control leads to rather more genuinely impressive and prideworthy events in games.

The only thing massively-impactful RNG favours are poorly skilled players, who would otherwise be left without "Impressive and exciting" events in their favour.

This is the same thing I'd argue, honestly. Having exciting plays in your own control leads to rather more genuinely impressive and prideworthy events in games.

https://youtu.be/9GlJIjIp9uk?t=1496

This push was the most exciting and amazing play of the tournament and there was absolutely no extreme RNG needed to make it so. As I said - on the contrary, knowing there wasn't a chance of extreme RNG like MGC or abandons may have made Asiamint confident enough to even attempt a push like this.

This is the same thing I'd argue, honestly. Having exciting plays in your own control leads to rather more genuinely impressive and prideworthy events in games.

The only thing massively-impactful RNG favours are poorly skilled players, who would otherwise be left without "Impressive and exciting" events in their favour.

How can massivly impactfull rng only benifit less skillful players? Skilled players dont get them? They quit if they opponent gets a nast mgc favouring the skilled them?

Those skillfull players only loose their minds when they are on the recieving end just like normal people, and mostly dont bat an eye if it happens to the opponent.
The difference is one knows #### happens, the other cant get over it.

How can massivly impactfull rng only benifit less skillful players? Skilled players dont get them? They quit if they opponent gets a nast mgc favouring the skilled them?

Those skillfull players only loose their minds when they are on the recieving end just like normal people, and mostly dont bat an eye if it happens to the opponent.
The difference is one knows #### happens, the other cant get over it.

More skilled players can make their own plays, and do not need to benefit from massively impactful RNG to feel as though they did something "impressive".

Contrariwise: A very unskilled player will only ever experience an "impressive" event through RNG.

This is why it favours very bad players, and not players with skill. Both players are affected by it, but a good player will do impressive things without the game taking control and doing it itself.

More skilled players can make their own plays, and do not need to benefit from massively impactful RNG to feel as though they did something "impressive".

Contrariwise: A very unskilled player will only ever experience an "impressive" event through RNG.

This is why it favours very bad players, and not players with skill. Both players are affected by it, but a good player will do impressive things without the game taking control and doing it itself.

You are totaly off. An unskilled player dont need much to feel impressed, any good flank or won game will do that, they dont need massive rng for that. That is mostly for shits and giggles, aka the other fun part of the game.

...

While you might had gotten bored of say SC2/CS GO, the trends are not there that the general public is abandoning those games in an alarming way. And the CSGO steam numbers don't show that at all.

SC2 made the right call to give attention to other modes outside automatch. It's still the biggest RTS played by quite a big margin, even if we discount the people who play coop/arcade. The SC2 scene suffered after the first years of game released due to stale meta and poor handling of tournaments from Blizz but it's not like it's a bad formula for people who like it. Specially now during the last years with the resurgences of players from other countries outside Korea. Even if Blizz pull the plug this year, i don't think it's going to go anywhere.

Hell, look at what happened with AoE2 during the last 2 years and what the effort of basically a single person did to the scene (Hidden Cup).

What the RTS genre needs is a clear differentiation between automatch/base game and more "for the lulz"/coop modes.


I'm not sure which is the biggest tournament for PUBG, but this year Katowice CSGO tournament had over a million peak viewer number. The only thing i found about PUBG biggest tournament/series put it barely above 100K peak viewers.

The closest thing which can dethrone CS:GO is another pseudo clone, Valorant.

You are totaly off. An unskilled player dont need much to feel impressed, any good flank or won game will do that, they dont need massive rng for that. That is mostly for shits and giggles, aka the other fun part of the game.

Main gun criticals and abandons are not fun RNG. Attack ground is fun. Howitzer scatter is fun

A 5% chance for your tank to be given to the enemy only punishes people for being daring. That's not fun, that's idiotic and it encourages boring strategy. It doesnt add something to the game, it removes something

https://youtu.be/9GlJIjIp9uk?t=1496

This push was the most exciting and amazing play of the tournament and there was absolutely no extreme RNG needed to make it so. As I said - on the contrary, knowing there wasn't a chance of extreme RNG like MGC or abandons may have made Asiamint confident enough to even attempt a push like this.

+1

anyone who reads through the entirety of this thread and still dont understand why low chance over impactful RNG is garbage on ladder and in tournaments (but still totally okay in other modes, even desirable) may be beyond reaching at this point. not being facetious.

Main gun criticals and abandons are not fun RNG. Attack ground is fun. Howitzer scatter is fun

A 5% chance for your tank to be given to the enemy only punishes people for being daring. That's not fun, that's idiotic and it encourages boring strategy. It doesnt add something to the game, it removes something

It not being fun or fun rng is a opinion nothing more nothing less.
Howitzer rng is massive rng as well as most off maps, so your contradicting yourself.

It makes people more cautios when they otherwise would be daring. Is not taking away from the game. 1+1-1=1

That 5% keeps me in my seat where i would otherwise tune out because its already decided. I saw a game yesterday where a p4 got mgc and abandoned in the enemy base. The ost player over extended greatly took a big risk and got punished for it. He did play greatly up until that point. I loved that game.

It not being fun or fun rng is a opinion nothing more nothing less.
Howitzer rng is massive rng as well as most off maps, so your contradicting yourself.

It makes people more cautios when they otherwise would be daring. Is not taking away from the game. 1+1-1=1

That 5% keeps me in my seat where i would otherwise tune out because its already decided. I saw a game yesterday where a p4 got mgc and abandoned in the enemy base. The ost player over extended greatly took a big risk and got punished for it. He did play greatly up until that point. I loved that game.

I've always loved the abandoned tanks in CoH2. It's a really cool mechanic (and I absolutely don't care if anyone doesn't like it). Hopefully if CoH3 arrives this mechanic will still be there. This is a mini game inside the game. If some Tiger / IS-2 / JagdTigr / ISU-152 / StoormTiger was thrown around it, an interesting event unfolds. Everyone wants to capture this tank, fix it, destroy it. This is a really cool event, around which a bloody battle can begin.

Howitzer rng is massive rng as well as most off maps, so your contradicting yourself.

No I'm not, you're just completely missing the point. Howitzer RNG is something you can actually account for. Vision and range effect the outcome. Abandon cannot be accounted for. There's no effecting it, it's just a random 5% chance

It makes people more cautios when they otherwise would be daring.
That 5% keeps me in my seat where i would otherwise tune out because its already decided

Yeah so it encourages camping and stale play. That's not a good thing

I saw a game yesterday where a p4 got mgc and abandoned in the enemy base. The ost player over extended greatly took a big risk and got punished for it. He did play greatly up until that point. I loved that game.

Losing the tank is already a punishment. I will never understand people who make that point

"You deserve to get punished for over-extending"
Losing a 120 fuel investment is not a punishment? What game are you playing? The problem isn't the player getting punished, it's the opponent getting an extra reward for no good reason

No I'm not, you're just completely missing the point. Howitzer RNG is something you can actually account for. Vision and range effect the outcome. Abandon cannot be accounted for. There's no effecting it, it's just a random 5% chance


Yeah so it encourages camping and stale play. That's not a good thing


Losing the tank is already a punishment. I will never understand people who make that point

"You deserve to get punished for over-extending"
Losing a 120 fuel investment is not a punishment? What game are you playing? The problem isn't the player getting punished, it's the opponent getting an extra reward for no good reason

+1

Yeah so it encourages camping and stale play. That's not a good thing

It has nothing to do with camping and more to do with greedy overextensions that can be punished. If your trigger finger is itchy and you engage in combat with half dead tanks you should account for potential losses.

It's different when you lose your 120Fuel vehicle and it gets abandoned on your territory vs the enemy territory. In majority games defending is easier or more beneficial than attacking and I think there is no problem with that.

No I'm not, you're just completely missing the point. Howitzer RNG is something you can actually account for. Vision and range effect the outcome. Abandon cannot be accounted for. There's no effecting it, it's just a random 5% chance


Yeah so it encourages camping and stale play. That's not a good thing


Losing the tank is already a punishment. I will never understand people who make that point

"You deserve to get punished for over-extending"
Losing a 120 fuel investment is not a punishment? What game are you playing? The problem isn't the player getting punished, it's the opponent getting an extra reward for no good reason

How ever you look at it howitsers and off map arty are still massive rng. You only decide the location and when.

Dont dive a enemy base with 1 tank and 4 at sources close by, thats your controle for not abandoning it in the enemy base. That prevents the opponent from getting rewarded for no good reason. If it was out in the field he could destroy it before it was captured.

He pushed it into base with 2 zisses and 2 t34's around. He would have lost the tank anyway but probably would have taken out a second t34 who where low hp if it didnt get mgc. He had the opponent down to 40 victory point to his 200+. He got overconfident and got punished hard, the p4 got fixed and used against him, while he played fantasticly up until that point.

No it doesnt only encourage camping and stale play. In allows for unexpected comebacks.
The game i am talking about was pretty one sided and stale, the soviets was behind all game. A stale and predictable boring game. If the p4 did get both t34's it would be game over and no point watching further.

And where did i say loosing 120 fuel isent a punishment? Please stop foaming, i play the same game you do. I just appriciate a certain bit of the game you cant seem to even grasp why i like it. I can understand why you dont, but as i said to others there are plenty stale and boring high click no or low rng rts's out there.

How ever you look at it howitsers and off map arty are still massive rng.

I didn't say they weren't. I am saying abandons are bad, not RNG in general...

You only decide the location and when.

That is literally not true. Whether or not you provide vision for your barrage makes a HUGE difference. The scatter also changes depending on range, so where you fire from/place the arty piece is also very important

Dont dive a enemy base with 1 tank and 4 at sources close by, thats your controle for not abandoning it in the enemy base. That prevents the opponent from getting rewarded for no good reason. If it was out in the field he could destroy it before it was captured.

The amount of AT sources has nothing to do with whether or not a tank gets abandoned. It can be a 1 on 1 fight or a massive brawl, that's completely irrelevant

And where did i say loosing 120 fuel isent a punishment? Please stop foaming, i play the same game you do. I just appriciate a certain bit of the game you cant seem to even grasp why i like it.

You clearly said greedy players deserve that outcome of giving a tank away. I'm saying losing a tank is more than enough punishment

I can understand why you dont, but as i said to others there are plenty stale and boring high click no or low rng rts's out there.

And this is why I'm "foaming". This point is completely invalid and really fucking annoying. As I have already said I love the RNG of coh. The entire game runs on RNG. I am talking about one specific example of it

Telling me to go play a completely different style of RTS when I am talking about one specific mechanic is ridiculous

If your trigger finger is itchy and you engage in combat with half dead tanks you should account for potential losses.

Everyone already has to do that. Losing large fuel investments is a significant punishment already, you don't need abandon mechanic for greedy players to get punished. Destroying the tank accomplishes that too...

Ill just leave this here...watch to the end...

https://clips.twitch.tv/GlutenFreeSarcasticAlligatorLitFam

Ill just leave this here...watch to the end...

https://clips.twitch.tv/GlutenFreeSarcasticAlligatorLitFam

thats not RNG, thats German engeneering. One of the main reasons Germany won WW2

Main gun criticals and abandons are not fun RNG. Attack ground is fun. Howitzer scatter is fun

A 5% chance for your tank to be given to the enemy only punishes people for being daring. That's not fun, that's idiotic and it encourages boring strategy. It doesnt add something to the game, it removes something

nope, MGC and abandons are fun RNG.

abandons was one improvished ideas from coh1.
when coh2 already toned down coh1 ideas, even dropping snow and blizzard along the way.

Why are the pro RNG guys getting counfused between what's been talked about here we have:

A) functional RNG, affecting the regular mechanics of the game in an evenly distributed and understandable way.

Most people are fine with this, it highlights the strategy and tactis of CoH, and devalues the mechanical elements, which is the style of CoH that we all like.

B) cinematic RNG, affecting one player in a huge and unpredictable way with little to no counter play or player input involved.

With B you consider RNG that makes the game less fun to play/watch for the competitive scene, so if there's an option to remove it for competitive games only that should be our approach.

Can we ensure we're on point/message here, no one is against A, and if they are I haven't seen them speak here.

what is B though?

to be fair, the plane crashes seems coded to home in on squads, a bit cheeky and lazy. But instead of dropping it in coh3, i rather the coders make crashes based on physics and trajectory. And when it hits, boom goes the squad, vehicles or buildings.

Right now, instead of doing near zero damages, we should explore the lines of code and reduce the homing in on squads, be more random as it should, and not silently removed.

btw how do you consider sight flares though? that is one no counter play, that you can trigger 100% at your own decision?