Imo medium tanks are starting to become "shock" units with high value when they first hit the field that is drops very fast. This are some suggestions in order to make this unit less of "shock" unit but add more value to them.
1) Delay the arrival of Cromwell, Ostheer PzIV, Sherman by adding 10-20 fuel to T3 and/or increasing research time.
Alternatively add a separate side tech.
Reasons:
The change will improve the timing to T-34/76 and reduce the shock value of these units. It will also increase the window of opportunity for light tanks opening the way for them to be toned down.
Issues with the lv weakness of Ostheer can be fixed by the reintroduction 221, redesigning of 222 a soft counter and lowering the power level of ostwind to 80-90 fuel while also increasing its AT capabilities.
2) Reduce the top speed of PzIV/Sherman by around 10%.
Reasons:
This is increase the mobility advance of Cromwell and T-34/76.
3)Lower the max range accuracy of TDs.
Reasons:
the probability of damaging mediums tanks from max range is simply too high
Medium Tanks
20 Dec 2020, 11:50 AM
#1
Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1
20 Dec 2020, 12:46 PM
#2
Posts: 1273
Good thread, but I really don't think that the idea of nerfing and increasing costs to everything else to lightly buff one unit is a good approach for the game. Also, the delay would be minor and not change much at all, or be any beneficial. Keep the fun toys and fun things in the game, don't delay them any more. It's better to play around the ram ability and buff the T34 slightly than creating an everlasting negative gameplay balance loop of nerfing everything to appreciate other units more (which wouldn't be the case at all). The TD nerf is unwarranted. Why also fix a factions weakness?
Edit: wait what? You want to lower the power level of the Ostwind by buffing it? What's that for a confusing and obfuscate way to ask for buffs for your favourite factions..
Edit: wait what? You want to lower the power level of the Ostwind by buffing it? What's that for a confusing and obfuscate way to ask for buffs for your favourite factions..
20 Dec 2020, 13:23 PM
#3
Posts: 2693 | Subs: 1
If you are going to fix Ostheers LV weakness, what remaining weakness do they have?
20 Dec 2020, 14:05 PM
#4
Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1
If you are going to fix Ostheers LV weakness, what remaining weakness do they have?
Why do they need a weakness?
20 Dec 2020, 18:15 PM
#5
Posts: 2693 | Subs: 1
Why do they need a weakness?
Game balance. Having 1 faction with all the tools fighting against factions without all the tools isn't a good way to achieve asymetrical balance. It's why the Soviets stock roster has changed so much since release while Ostheer has changed relatively little.
20 Dec 2020, 18:45 PM
#7
Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1
Game balance. Having 1 faction with all the tools fighting against factions without all the tools isn't a good way to achieve asymetrical balance. It's why the Soviets stock roster has changed so much since release while Ostheer has changed relatively little.
And the point is that Ostheer already have weakness like grenadier, light vehicles, inability for early attacks and there is little reason to increase their weakness vs light tank.
Delaying medium tanks as suggested here will only make these weakness worse thus this gup must be filled. And and if you actually spend time reading what has been suggested it would make 222 more expensive.
In the end of the day this is design change and not balance one.
20 Dec 2020, 23:42 PM
#8
Posts: 1096
Imo medium tanks are starting to become "shock" units with high value when they first hit the field that is drops very fast. This are some suggestions in order to make this unit less of "shock" unit but add more value to them.
1) Delay the arrival of Cromwell, Ostheer PzIV, Sherman by adding 10-20 fuel to T3 and/or increasing research time.
Alternatively add a separate side tech.
Reasons:
The change will improve the timing to T-34/76 and reduce the shock value of these units. It will also increase the window of opportunity for light tanks opening the way for them to be toned down.
Issues with the lv weakness of Ostheer can be fixed by the reintroduction 221, redesigning of 222 a soft counter and lowering the power level of ostwind to 80-90 fuel while also increasing its AT capabilities.
2) Reduce the top speed of PzIV/Sherman by around 10%.
Reasons:
This is increase the mobility advance of Cromwell and T-34/76.
3)Lower the max range accuracy of TDs.
Reasons:
the probability of damaging mediums tanks from max range is simply too high
Sounds like it would kill off any medium tank usage beyond 1v1.
21 Dec 2020, 07:45 AM
#9
Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1
Sounds like it would kill off any medium tank usage beyond 1v1.
I am not sure I am following you can you pls elaborate?
If I am not mistaken stock mediums usage is already reduced the large the mod.
21 Dec 2020, 08:45 AM
#10
Posts: 486
Im.... not used to agreeing with Vipper. I like slowing the real mediums. Might need to move SZF into T4 to not make early SZF even more common, that beast has crazy shock value.
21 Dec 2020, 14:03 PM
#11
Posts: 177
Good Topic. Wise Tweak.
but
Disagree with Reduce TD range acc.
If reduce max range acc of TD. panther/Pz IV or other medium tank top speed must be reduced too.
otherwise They will not viable at TD roles that need to take advantage by a range. they will get flank too easily especially in team match.
but
Disagree with Reduce TD range acc.
If reduce max range acc of TD. panther/Pz IV or other medium tank top speed must be reduced too.
otherwise They will not viable at TD roles that need to take advantage by a range. they will get flank too easily especially in team match.
21 Dec 2020, 14:58 PM
#12
Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1
Good Topic. Wise Tweak.
but
Disagree with Reduce TD range acc.
If reduce max range acc of TD. panther/Pz IV or other medium tank top speed must be reduced too.
otherwise They will not viable at TD roles that need to take advantage by a range. they will get flank too easily especially in team match.
I already suggested reducing the speed of PzIV shemran and Panther has a target size of 24.
TDs that get accuracy bonuses already have near 100% to hit at max range which imo is simply wrong.
If there is a need for it one could increase the ROF at sorter ranges to compensate.
21 Dec 2020, 21:10 PM
#13
Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2
Like idea 2, not sure about the specifics of execution of idea 1 and general consequence and ramifications of the change but i adhere in principle.
My controls weren't working
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
22 Dec 2020, 02:03 AM
#14
Posts: 307
idea 1:
- Increase medium tank build time/ alittle Ref is fine.
- Buff Ost LV , Ostwind is bad. OST can snowball alies harder and make their LV + combine inf worse overtime.Just dont do that.
idea 2:
- No,That changes would make Prem Medium tank like Ez8, Panther, Corne clean the flood faster (out gun by speed, HP, DPS, armor).
- Increase medium tank build time/ alittle Ref is fine.
- Buff Ost LV , Ostwind is bad. OST can snowball alies harder and make their LV + combine inf worse overtime.Just dont do that.
idea 2:
- No,That changes would make Prem Medium tank like Ez8, Panther, Corne clean the flood faster (out gun by speed, HP, DPS, armor).
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