Login

russian armor

Medium Tanks

20 Dec 2020, 11:50 AM
#1
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1

Imo medium tanks are starting to become "shock" units with high value when they first hit the field that is drops very fast. This are some suggestions in order to make this unit less of "shock" unit but add more value to them.

1) Delay the arrival of Cromwell, Ostheer PzIV, Sherman by adding 10-20 fuel to T3 and/or increasing research time.
Alternatively add a separate side tech.

Reasons:
The change will improve the timing to T-34/76 and reduce the shock value of these units. It will also increase the window of opportunity for light tanks opening the way for them to be toned down.

Issues with the lv weakness of Ostheer can be fixed by the reintroduction 221, redesigning of 222 a soft counter and lowering the power level of ostwind to 80-90 fuel while also increasing its AT capabilities.


2) Reduce the top speed of PzIV/Sherman by around 10%.
Reasons:
This is increase the mobility advance of Cromwell and T-34/76.

3)Lower the max range accuracy of TDs.
Reasons:
the probability of damaging mediums tanks from max range is simply too high
20 Dec 2020, 12:46 PM
#2
avatar of JohnSmith

Posts: 1273

Good thread, but I really don't think that the idea of nerfing and increasing costs to everything else to lightly buff one unit is a good approach for the game. Also, the delay would be minor and not change much at all, or be any beneficial. Keep the fun toys and fun things in the game, don't delay them any more. It's better to play around the ram ability and buff the T34 slightly than creating an everlasting negative gameplay balance loop of nerfing everything to appreciate other units more (which wouldn't be the case at all). The TD nerf is unwarranted. Why also fix a factions weakness?

Edit: wait what? You want to lower the power level of the Ostwind by buffing it? What's that for a confusing and obfuscate way to ask for buffs for your favourite factions..
20 Dec 2020, 13:23 PM
#3
avatar of Aerohank

Posts: 2693 | Subs: 1

If you are going to fix Ostheers LV weakness, what remaining weakness do they have?
20 Dec 2020, 14:05 PM
#4
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1

If you are going to fix Ostheers LV weakness, what remaining weakness do they have?

Why do they need a weakness?
20 Dec 2020, 18:15 PM
#5
avatar of Aerohank

Posts: 2693 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post20 Dec 2020, 14:05 PMVipper

Why do they need a weakness?


Game balance. Having 1 faction with all the tools fighting against factions without all the tools isn't a good way to achieve asymetrical balance. It's why the Soviets stock roster has changed so much since release while Ostheer has changed relatively little.
20 Dec 2020, 18:45 PM
#7
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1



Game balance. Having 1 faction with all the tools fighting against factions without all the tools isn't a good way to achieve asymetrical balance. It's why the Soviets stock roster has changed so much since release while Ostheer has changed relatively little.

And the point is that Ostheer already have weakness like grenadier, light vehicles, inability for early attacks and there is little reason to increase their weakness vs light tank.

Delaying medium tanks as suggested here will only make these weakness worse thus this gup must be filled. And and if you actually spend time reading what has been suggested it would make 222 more expensive.

In the end of the day this is design change and not balance one.
20 Dec 2020, 23:42 PM
#8
avatar of Grim

Posts: 1097

jump backJump back to quoted post20 Dec 2020, 11:50 AMVipper
Imo medium tanks are starting to become "shock" units with high value when they first hit the field that is drops very fast. This are some suggestions in order to make this unit less of "shock" unit but add more value to them.

1) Delay the arrival of Cromwell, Ostheer PzIV, Sherman by adding 10-20 fuel to T3 and/or increasing research time.
Alternatively add a separate side tech.

Reasons:
The change will improve the timing to T-34/76 and reduce the shock value of these units. It will also increase the window of opportunity for light tanks opening the way for them to be toned down.

Issues with the lv weakness of Ostheer can be fixed by the reintroduction 221, redesigning of 222 a soft counter and lowering the power level of ostwind to 80-90 fuel while also increasing its AT capabilities.


2) Reduce the top speed of PzIV/Sherman by around 10%.
Reasons:
This is increase the mobility advance of Cromwell and T-34/76.

3)Lower the max range accuracy of TDs.
Reasons:
the probability of damaging mediums tanks from max range is simply too high


Sounds like it would kill off any medium tank usage beyond 1v1.
21 Dec 2020, 07:45 AM
#9
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post20 Dec 2020, 23:42 PMGrim


Sounds like it would kill off any medium tank usage beyond 1v1.

I am not sure I am following you can you pls elaborate?

If I am not mistaken stock mediums usage is already reduced the large the mod.
21 Dec 2020, 08:45 AM
#10
avatar of Descolata

Posts: 486

Im.... not used to agreeing with Vipper. I like slowing the real mediums. Might need to move SZF into T4 to not make early SZF even more common, that beast has crazy shock value.
21 Dec 2020, 14:03 PM
#11
avatar of vgfgff

Posts: 177

Good Topic. Wise Tweak.
but
Disagree with Reduce TD range acc.

If reduce max range acc of TD. panther/Pz IV or other medium tank top speed must be reduced too.
otherwise They will not viable at TD roles that need to take advantage by a range. they will get flank too easily especially in team match.

21 Dec 2020, 14:58 PM
#12
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post21 Dec 2020, 14:03 PMvgfgff
Good Topic. Wise Tweak.
but
Disagree with Reduce TD range acc.

If reduce max range acc of TD. panther/Pz IV or other medium tank top speed must be reduced too.
otherwise They will not viable at TD roles that need to take advantage by a range. they will get flank too easily especially in team match.


I already suggested reducing the speed of PzIV shemran and Panther has a target size of 24.

TDs that get accuracy bonuses already have near 100% to hit at max range which imo is simply wrong.

If there is a need for it one could increase the ROF at sorter ranges to compensate.
21 Dec 2020, 21:10 PM
#13
avatar of elchino7
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2

Like idea 2, not sure about the specifics of execution of idea 1 and general consequence and ramifications of the change but i adhere in principle.
22 Dec 2020, 02:03 AM
#14
avatar of theekvn

Posts: 307

idea 1:
- Increase medium tank build time/ alittle Ref is fine.
- Buff Ost LV , Ostwind is bad. OST can snowball alies harder and make their LV + combine inf worse overtime.Just dont do that.
idea 2:
- No,That changes would make Prem Medium tank like Ez8, Panther, Corne clean the flood faster (out gun by speed, HP, DPS, armor).
1 user is browsing this thread: 1 guest

SHOUT IT OUT!

No ProfanityNumber of ShoutsRefresh Shout Box
Rosbone: I would like to join in celebration with the 9% of Coh3 MP players who are getting ALL of the new maps. Woohoo! #3Tards
Yesterday, 19:22 PM
OKSpitfire: I hope that at least one of heavies is a like-for-like reskin of the coh 2 ISU-152. I miss that thing.
Yesterday, 10:23 AM
Rosbone: Buy our cool new large tanks that will never get played on the 4 new 1v1 maps added. Perfect synergy! :facepalm:
Last Thursday, 19:23 PM
Rosbone: Everyone ready for some deep penetration :snfPeter:
Last Thursday, 17:13 PM
Lady Xenarra: I'm sure the ppl who defended it as balanced for Allies will be screaming like they got scaled with boiling water, in COH3. How the tables turn.
Last Thursday, 11:33 AM
Willy Pete: I think it was nuts with any engine damage. Especially on superheavies
Last Thursday, 07:03 AM
aerafield: Personally I think without the ram ability, it's worse than loiters for example
Last Thursday, 00:09 AM
Willy Pete: It combined well with most slowing abilities, not just ram stuns
Last Wednesday, 23:36 PM
Willy Pete: Only??? I think not being able to shoot it down and the ramp up effect also had something to do with it
Last Wednesday, 23:34 PM
Willy Pete: Really
Last Wednesday, 23:30 PM
aerafield: AT overwatch was broken only because it came with the faction of T34 ramming
Last Wednesday, 22:29 PM
Willy Pete: Love to see Relic really learning from their past mistakes. Let's bring back the dumbest ability in coh2, and charge money for it
Last Wednesday, 20:34 PM
Willy Pete: New DAK commander will have AT overwatch as alternate choice to elefant
Last Wednesday, 20:33 PM
aaa: Funy thing new players dont know that. And are trying to compete vs hacks
Last Wednesday, 10:33 AM
aaa: Online gaming is trash in general, not just coh. On high level there are all cheats in most games
Last Wednesday, 10:24 AM
aaa: 2 cheaters in 3 days. MH and DH
Last Wednesday, 09:57 AM
aerafield: I am a simple man, I build Humvees with Pathfinders and Missile Launchers inside, I am happy
Last Tuesday, 20:57 PM
Lady Xenarra: aerafield lamevee spammer confirmed :nahnah:
Last Tuesday, 20:42 PM
aerafield: those who know, know: https://www.reddit.com/r/CompanyOfHeroes/s/fPk4yLIgmK
Last Tuesday, 15:40 PM
adamírcz: Might be onto somethin here, combine side armour existing, maps where flanking is a viable option, and hopefully also heavies actually being less manouverable than mediums (lookin at you coh2), and it might be fun gameplay
Last Monday, 13:39 PM

Ladders Top 10

  • #
    Steam Alias
    W
    L
    %
    Streak
Data provided by Relic Relic Entertainment

Replay highlight

VS
  • U.S. Forces flag cblanco ★
  • The British Forces flag 보드카 중대
  • Oberkommando West flag VonManteuffel
  • Ostheer flag Heartless Jäger
uploaded by XXxxHeartlessxxXX

Board Info

926 users are online: 926 guests
0 post in the last 24h
2 posts in the last week
42 posts in the last month
Registered members: 51894
Welcome our newest member, Cutherferik
Most online: 2043 users on 29 Oct 2023, 01:04 AM