Random OKW in team games – blood, guts and glory

Thats a whole lot of false equivalencies and trying to explain away why the exact same scenario shouldnt be given thought to while the other should.

Either all factions get caches or none of them do. Pretending the game will be balanced otherwise is bad faith delusion. If thats how you prefer the game to be than fine, but dont insult my intelligence by trying to hold the same argument two different ways.

The bottom line: There is no reason why OKW should have caches. There is also no reason why they shouldnt have caches. The only thing thats holding OKW back from having them is outdated design philosophy just like other factions missing unit types that are basically necessary in team games or factions like brits that are just a box of gimmicks because relic was taking the piss when making them.

Well then point out the wrong ones.
But overall it does not matter, since the Calliope example was merely an illustrative example. The only point I made was that we have to check for risk and reward. And high risk patches is not what this game can afford.
I also don't know why you jump to conclusions about caches because that is also not what I said at all.

Every post you make seems to be an attempt at a "gotcha".

A thread about OKW and their lack of caches and you chime in with "AHA! IF OKW WERE TO GET CACHES WHY SHOULDNT MY PET FACTION USF HAVE THE CALLIOPE NONDOCTRINALLY? THIS IS EXACTLY THE SAME SITUATION IN MY MIND"

Make an argument actually specifically supporting your desire for particular units nondoctrinally in the USF, rather than piggybacking off of unrelated topic, and maybe you'll have a better time.

I'm sorry youre unable to understand what an illustrative example is. This will be the third time I've said this game suffers from legacy design decisions from relic and there is no reason why a game that is ran by modders should still be wed to those poor design decisions. The whole reason this thread exists is because not giving a faction a resource income boost item that all other factions have is painfully stupid? You agree right, like I know you agree 10000% with what I just said, but you lose the plot when I show those same poor design decisions carry on to other facets of balance, like unit rosters. My overall point is those things need to be standardized, the toolbox that factions have available to them, not the unit profiles themselves. Thats where it goes off the rails for you and I'm guessing its because you have PTSD from calliope. If you still can't understand after this comment, youre being willfully ignorant.

I'm sorry youre unable to understand what an illustrative example is. This will be the third time I've said this game suffers from legacy design decisions from relic and there is no reason why a game that is ran by modders should still be wed to those poor design decisions. The whole reason this thread exists is because not giving a faction a resource income boost item that all other factions have is painfully stupid? You agree right, like I know you agree 10000% with what I just said, but you lose the plot when I show those same poor design decisions carry on to other facets of balance, like unit rosters. My overall point is those things need to be standardized, the toolbox that factions have available to them, not the unit profiles themselves. Thats where it goes off the rails for you and I'm guessing its because you have PTSD from calliope. If you still can't understand after this comment, youre being willfully ignorant.

They arent a comparable example, pretending they are is getting tiresome.

If you want to argue about giving units to factions that need them nondoctrinally (UKF being a generally more obvious recipient than USF) then make specific arguments in a new thread. No faction has access to every type of unit/every tool nondoctrinally, this has been the case even between OST and SOV.

You keep making vague allusions to "Legacy design decisions" from Lelic hurting balance, and to that I agree. You don't seem to want to actually go into specifics, however, and talk about which specific design decisions are hurting something in precisely what way.




Here's an example of what you should be trying to do:

Show Spoiler

Though try and keep all this to a relevant thread, this is supposed to be about OKW.

Ive talked about OKW in every single comment I've made, so dont tell me I'm going off topic lmao.

Secondly, the last time I went into specifics with you about non doc roster holes, you told me riflemen weren't mainline infantry and were functionally elite infantry, so no, I'm not going to appeal to your "logic" when youve shown time and time again it doesnt exist.

Btw for the rest of the threads information, this conversation took place in shoutbox and when I suggested rifles could be toned down by fitting in an elite inf non doc into the roster, he went on an hour tirade about how rifles were actually elite infantry.


Oh and I have referenced the legacy design decisions, one of which is the topic at hand, the lack of resource caches for OKW and how stupid it is, just like other design decisions that left holes in rosters relic sold back to you with commanders. I'm not sure what else you would like me to say that isnt an 8 page dissertation in MLA format, certainly the comments I've made here have been far more informative and productive than 85% of the trash that gets posted on CoH2.org (DAE think falls not strong enough/DAE think jackson deserves a buff?)

Also you know what could help pip? Playing the game.

Ive talked about OKW in every single comment I've made, so dont tell me I'm going off topic lmao.

Secondly, the last time I went into specifics with you about non doc roster holes, you told me riflemen weren't mainline infantry and were functionally elite infantry, so no, I'm not going to appeal to your "logic" when youve shown time and time again it doesnt exist.

Btw for the rest of the threads information, this conversation took place in shoutbox and when I suggested rifles could be toned down by fitting in an elite inf non doc into the roster, he went on an hour tirade about how rifles were actually elite infantry.


Oh and I have referenced the legacy design decisions, one of which is the topic at hand, the lack of resource caches for OKW and how stupid it is, just like other design decisions that left holes in rosters relic sold back to you with commanders. I'm not sure what else you would like me to say that isnt an 8 page dissertation in MLA format, certainly the comments I've made here have been far more informative and productive than 85% of the trash that gets posted on CoH2.org (DAE think falls not strong enough/DAE think jackson deserves a buff?)

Also you know what could help pip? Playing the game.

Why do you keep pretending I've called Rifles "Elite infantry"? What I said was that:

A: "Elite Infantry" is not a hard category. "Elite" infantry is what we call infantry that comes later than "Mainlines", and is able to beat them in combat. Generally this comes at the cost of versatility, they are unable to fight vehicles, for example. There isnt one specific thing that makes one unit "Elite" and one "not". To this end, Riflemen are an in-between unit, they outfight Volksgrenadiers throughout the game, though grenadiers can do well against them in some circumstances.

B: Riflemen soundly beat both Grenadiers and Volksgrenadiers, this is why both axis factions have "Elite" infantry. To give USF "Elite" infantry you would need to tone down Rifles to the level of Volks/Grens, but Rifles do not have anything nondoctrinally to support them in the beginning of the game, like Grenadiers have their Sniper, MG, or Mortar, or OKW has the Kubel or Sturmpioneers. (They of course have their mortar, but neither OST or USF typically uses it immediately to fight infantry, because that isnt really what its for).

So you would then need to provide USF with some other way to support their Riflemen against Volks/Grens at the beginning of the game, who they would be relatively equally matched with in your "suggested" change to balance. What is it? What do you provide them with?

And what "Elite Infantry" do you give them? Where does it go in their roster? What happens to Riflemen's BARs? Do they still have to buy two?


You are suggesting "Fixes" to issues that are extremely short-sighted, and you don't want to provide an actually comprehensive set of changes to be made, rather you keep making extremely simplistic comments like "make rifles weaker and give USF elite infantry".

My problem isnt the suggestion of giving USF "Elite Infantry", or other units into their nondoc roster, its that you are not actually providing arguments beyond the likes of "DAE think the Jackson needs a buff".



None of this is even going into the differences between the three factions beyond their mainline choices, obviously.