The Excessive Amount Of Micro Required For Brummbar

You are getting pushback as the unit is absolutely fine.

The units performance might be fine but the unit is not "absolutely fine", it projectile is allot slower than others.

This is something that simply should be fixed regardless of other performance of the unit. This patch already make similar fixes:

Show Spoiler

it should also fix this inconstancy in projectile speed.

I don't think there's a consistency issue if the weapon profile is different enough to other similar units which is the case.

If you make it as fast as other projectiles you would need to nerf it to the level of the other weapons as well, which most people on this thread don't want.

it should also fix this inconstancy in projectile speed.

It would be consistent to greatly decrease the AoE, AoE profile, increase scatter then and decrease penetration by 75%.

It would also be consistent to put it behind a doctrine, because both vehicles that you want to put it in line with are doctrinal, it is very inconsistent for brummbar not to be.

Your comparison to the 50 cal and the Sherman makes very little sense, they aren't units rolling around blasting entire squads off the face of the earth, the Brumbar is. The unit needs no further buffs at this time, the shell speed is not hindering this unit at all.

How I feel about this:

Ost have lots of tools to deal with infantry. Ostwind is great and has a turret and is a speedy boi

It would be consistent to greatly decrease the AoE, AoE profile, increase scatter then and decrease penetration by 75%.

It would also be consistent to put it behind a doctrine, because both vehicles that you want to put it in line with are doctrinal, it is very inconsistent for brummbar not to be.

apples and oranges

I don't think there's a consistency issue if the weapon profile is different enough to other similar units which is the case.

Not really. The weapon is quite close to dozer

If you make it as fast as other projectiles you would need to nerf it to the level of the other weapons as well, which most people on this thread don't want.

Not really. The unit performance is balanced according to cost, tech cost, faction design, what is facing....

Projectile speed effect primarily unit behavior and less its balance. What the change will do is reduce the gap between auto-firing and manual firing and if manual firing needs some adjustments so be it, it is will be better in the long ran.

Your argument is like saying that if one turns luch gun from accuracy based to AOE based than its should be buffed to T-70 levels.

Take the change for stuka for instance. People who new how to aim the stuka so that hit enemy targets with its AOE damage could get allot more out of it than people who where using as other rocket artillery. Yet it was decided that it should behave more like similar units. But it was nor nerf to level of other units because of it.
or
take 120mm changes that are practically "buffs" but are under bug fixes
- Fixed an issue where the 120mm Mortar would need to reset during the initiation barrages if targets were slightly offset with the mortar.
- Fixed inconsistencies where the 120mm Mortar in AOE and fire-times between auto-fire and barrage.

which most people on this thread don't want.

If that is the case the have not post, the main argument so far was do not buff the brumabar.

apples and oranges

Man I hate this analogy, why can't fruit be compared?

"Man I hate this analogy, why can't fruit be compared? "

If we can compare a buff to the .50 cal retreat and Sherman mounted .50 and equate that to the brubmar needing a buff, then I say fruit is fair game Elpern.

That aside the brumbar is in a very good spot and doesn't require any buffs, even if it shoots watermelons.

Man I hate this analogy, why can't fruit be compared?

True, we all know apples are better.

Team tomato

snip

The comparisons are really poor.

If you make the Luch to have a gun equally as good as the T70, then it should cost similarly and have you spend as much in tech resources in order to unlock it.

You can't predict how much deviation the Stuka rocket has in order to BARELY miss the target for it to be hit only by AOE. Cause if you purposely move the barrage UI outside of say a mortar emplacement, you might miss completely without even damaging at all.

The fix is more akin to a bugfix, same with the 120mm changes.


No matter how you want to justify it, a change in speed velocity is a buff. A buff which makes hitting both with auto attacks or attack ground easier. Most people don't like it cause been able to predict or make use of hold fire rewards the skill of the player involved.

Let me remind you this was your first post:

The projectile speed could easily be increased to Dozer levels and the AOE adjusted.

I think more people (USF players) would be happier if the 105mm Sherman was made equally strong and micro demanding as the Brummbear.

I think you need to learn that some people might not like your ideas and be in a disagreement instead of shielding behind the ground of it been "new player friendly" or "consistency".

You can't predict how much deviation the Stuka rocket has in order to BARELY miss the target for it to be hit only by AOE.

Stuka has 0 scatter.

No matter how you want to justify it, a change in speed velocity is a buff. A buff which makes hitting both with auto attacks or attack ground easier. Most people don't like it cause been able to predict or make use of hold fire rewards the skill of the player involved.

I am not sure why there is such a fuss about weather increasing the speed of brumbar projectile is a buff or consistency change. It does have to be one or the other it can be both. Consistency changes can even be nerf.

To me it is indifferent how some one call it. What I have said and will say it again. Is that I do no think that Brumbar need a buff to its performance but I would like to see used as other units and not to have to be so micro intensive.

...
I think more people (USF players) would be happier if the 105mm Sherman was made equally strong and micro demanding as the Brummbear.
...

Great, lets do then, lets reduce the velocity of the 105 sherma's projectile to that of Brumbar, at least unit behavior would be consistent.

...
I think you need to learn that some people might not like your ideas and be in a disagreement instead of shielding behind the ground of it been "new player friendly" or "consistency"...

I am more than aware the people might disagree with my point of view and I respect their opinion, that is why my post have "in my opinion" in them.

I think this a lesson another specific should learn user and not me.

Great, lets do then, lets reduce the velocity of the 105 sherma's projectile to that of Brumbar.

Are you playing stupid or you like twisting words too much? How can you understand making equally strong as reducing projectile speed?

I am more than aware the people might disagree with my point of view and I respect their opinion, that is why my post have "in my opinion" in them.

First of all, everyone's posts here are their opinion (unless member of balance team reports their view on the matter), it is obvious without putting imo. Secondly you like to actually hide behind "consistency" and "it's confusing for new players"

The lesson that you should learn is to read and not twist words. And also to actually support your arguments with something real beside "consistency" and other arbitrary things you make up.

Are you playing stupid or you like twisting words too much? How can you understand making equally strong as reducing projectile speed?

Simply ask elchino7 what he means by:
I think more people (USF players) would be happier if the 105mm Sherman was made equally strong and micro demanding as the Brummbear.

First of all, everyone's posts here are their opinion (unless member of balance team reports their view on the matter), it is obvious without putting imo. Secondly you like to actually hide behind "consistency" and "it's confusing for new players"

The lesson that you should learn is to read and not twist words. And also to actually support your arguments with something real beside "consistency" and other arbitrary things you make up.

Now try to relax and focus on the Brumbar and not me.

Simply ask elchino7 what he means by:
I think more people (USF players) would be happier if the 105mm Sherman was made equally strong and micro demanding as the Brummbear.

I see you're still struggling with it, so I'll help you by underlining the part that you keep ignoring.

You're welcome.