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[Winter Balance Update] UKF Feedback

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Support Sapper
5 Feb 2021, 23:14 PM
#741
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jump backJump back to quoted post5 Feb 2021, 21:59 PMVipper

The ability does work outside garrison and the extra range is actually a very bad idea.


I remember patch note said that it require garrison, if it isnt then it will be out right op as a better version of the mg42 vet1 and pp had to notice it for quite a whileby now. I dont touch the preview mod since the 64bit update as it is buggy.

I believe extend range can work as an unique feature of the vicker with proper tune, as im trying to give it a clear trade off of limited arc and reduce suppression.
My mod with a bunch of new stuffs

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Vipper
5 Feb 2021, 23:32 PM
#742
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jump backJump back to quoted post5 Feb 2021, 23:14 PMSupport Sapper


I remember patch note said that it require garrison, if it isnt then it will be out right op as a better version of the mg42 vet1 and pp had to notice it for quite a whileby now. I dont touch the preview mod since the 64bit update as it is buggy.

I believe extend range can work as an unique feature of the vicker with proper tune, as im trying to give it a clear trade off of limited arc and reduce suppression.
An mg that can fight other hmg but out ranging them is a bad idea...
:)
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Katitof
5 Feb 2021, 23:35 PM
#743
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jump backJump back to quoted post5 Feb 2021, 23:32 PMVipper
An mg that can fight other hmg but out ranging them is a bad idea...

Why?
If you're fighting HMGs using HMGs you are already doing it wrong.
jump backJump back to quoted post25 Nov 2015, 11:09 AM$nuffy
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
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Support Sapper
5 Feb 2021, 23:38 PM
#744
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jump backJump back to quoted post5 Feb 2021, 23:32 PMVipper
An mg that can fight other hmg but out ranging them is a bad idea...


It already like that in the current version and it is not big of a deal as both axis faction have easily access to proper mg counter, which ukf happen to not have/not ass easily access.
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Vipper
6 Feb 2021, 00:06 AM
#745
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jump backJump back to quoted post5 Feb 2021, 23:38 PMSupport Sapper


It already like that in the current version and it is not big of a deal as both axis faction have easily access to proper mg counter, which ukf happen to not have/not ass easily access.


The live version requires garrison and is fine, outside garrison extended range is bad idea.
:)
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Support Sapper
6 Feb 2021, 00:18 AM
#746
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jump backJump back to quoted post6 Feb 2021, 00:06 AMVipper


The live version requires garrison and is fine, outside garrison extended range is bad idea.


In live it do require garrison but as the same time it is passive. In the preview it is an active time ability which cost munition and replace the passive, which make garrison requirement a serious restriction, or if it not require garrison as you said then the issue is event bigger.
My mod with a bunch of new stuffs

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Vipper
6 Feb 2021, 00:21 AM
#747
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jump backJump back to quoted post6 Feb 2021, 00:18 AMSupport Sapper


In live it do require garrison but as the same time it is passive. In the preview it is an active time ability which cost munition and replace the passive, which make garrison requirement a serious restriction, or if it not require garrison as you said then the issue is event bigger.

It does not require garrison:

"Vickers HMG Team
The passive bonus of the Vickers is being changed into a timed ability. This should allow the Vickers's veterancy 1 ability be more useful in the majority of situation.

'Take Aim' replaces veterancy 1 garrison bonus. Improves range by 7, accuracy by +15%, penetration by +6. Cycle a reload before activating. Can be used in garrisons. 15 munitions."


I know it an issue, have pointed out but fallen into deaf ears.
:)
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Support Sapper
6 Feb 2021, 00:40 AM
#748
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jump backJump back to quoted post6 Feb 2021, 00:21 AMVipper

It does not require garrison:

"Vickers HMG Team
The passive bonus of the Vickers is being changed into a timed ability. This should allow the Vickers's veterancy 1 ability be more useful in the majority of situation.

'Take Aim' replaces veterancy 1 garrison bonus. Improves range by 7, accuracy by +15%, penetration by +6. Cycle a reload before activating. Can be used in garrisons. 15 munitions."


I know it an issue, have pointed out but fallen into deaf ears.


I dont like this ability from the beginning, with or without the garrison requirement. Vet 2 vicker already have bonus pen so basically you are paying for what you used to get passive while still having to bear all restrictions. The pen bonus make no sense at all, as the only micro light vehicle ukf have to face is the kubel which the vicker completely have no issue dealing with, while event with the pen bonus it wont stand a lone vs a 222 or anything above.

I still believe the ability require to be in garrison and will test it latter but if im wrong i will be ready exploit when it come live.
My mod with a bunch of new stuffs

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Support Sapper
6 Feb 2021, 04:02 AM
#749
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so due to some personal stuffs and then the buggy 64 bit update, im hadnt test the v5 preview up until now. I just tried the vicker and churchill of v5.

The Take aim turn out not require to be in garrison. which make it a better version of mg42's vet 1. I can see complains about it coming if it go live.

On the other hand, the animation of churchill's top gunner and grenade throwing ability seem to be improved (or it has alway been like so and i didnt notice it), that the gunner get back inside of the tank, throw grenade then come back to mann the gun, very reasonable. So i will take back all the words i had said about grenade flying out from the gunner's stomatch and sorry about them.

Still, having both spoter and gunner sticking out of the turret is still unrealistic, so i really hope that the tank commander upgrade will be removed and replace by top gunner upgrade instead of vet 1.
My mod with a bunch of new stuffs

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Klement Pikhtura
9 Feb 2021, 08:53 AM
#750
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jump backJump back to quoted post5 Feb 2021, 23:35 PMKatitof

Why?
If you're fighting HMGs using HMGs you are already doing it wrong.

because it reduces enemy HMG's ROF and thus reduces its suppression potential. It is not a counter, but it can be used to an extend. Maybe in terms of 1v1 it is not that useful, but in teamgames this ability can be potent. Although I have no idea whether it would be OP or not.
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Descolata
9 Feb 2021, 17:39 PM
#751
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Posts: 486

MG reload bulletin will be fantastic next patch.
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Stug life
9 Feb 2021, 20:29 PM
#752
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Posts: 4474

jump backJump back to quoted post5 Feb 2021, 23:32 PMVipper
An mg that can fight other hmg but out ranging them is a bad idea...
does it not need to set up first ? and has the same sight range?
katitof-2018
Katitof-2018
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SkysTheLimit
9 Feb 2021, 20:52 PM
#753
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jump backJump back to quoted post5 Feb 2021, 23:32 PMVipper
An mg that can fight other hmg but out ranging them is a bad idea...

We have MGs that can fight light vehicles, how the hell is this a problem?
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Pip
9 Feb 2021, 20:54 PM
#754
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Posts: 1594

jump backJump back to quoted post9 Feb 2021, 20:29 PMStug life
does it not need to set up first ? and has the same sight range?


Neither of these things matter that much. There are plenty of ways to get vision on the opposing MG (UKF's sniper and nondoctrinal Recon planes provide enough vision for this), and "Setting up" is something all MGs already have to do, why does it matter if it has to set up if once it does it can fire upon an opposing MG with no way for that opposing MG to retaliate?

jump backJump back to quoted post9 Feb 2021, 20:52 PMSkysTheLimit

We have MGs that can fight light vehicles, how the hell is this a problem?


I'm not convinced it WOULD be a problem, but MG->light vehicle is a bit of a different situation than MG->other MG, I think.

As I say, I don't think the Vickers being able to do this sounds like that much of a problem, but I'm not sure if there's much in that comparison.
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SkysTheLimit
9 Feb 2021, 20:56 PM
#755
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jump backJump back to quoted post9 Feb 2021, 20:54 PMPip

"Setting up" is something all MGs already have to do, why does it matter if it has to set up if once it does it can fire upon an opposing MG with no way for that opposing MG to retaliate?

I think he's referring to the forced reload. So even after it sets up, it still has to reload before the ability begins

Same as AP rounds on other MGs. If an mg42 shredding HTs is okay I don't see how this isn't
jump backJump back to quoted post9 Feb 2021, 20:54 PMPip

I'm not convinced it WOULD be a problem, but MG->light vehicle is a bit of a different situation than MG->other MG, I think.

As I say, I don't think the Vickers being able to do this sounds like that much of a problem, but I'm not sure if there's much in that comparison.

Then you're missing the point of the comparison. Of course they're different

If being able to kill lights with MGs is fine (which I think it is) outranging other MGs with an MG is really not that special... Their difference is the entire point of the comparison

I don't understand the pen bonus, but the outranging part isn't a problem at all
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Vipper
9 Feb 2021, 23:22 PM
#756
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jump backJump back to quoted post9 Feb 2021, 20:29 PMStug life
does it not need to set up first ? and has the same sight range?

One can spot with pyro tommies (even more so in cover). There is no reason for an HMG with 52 range.
:)
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Katitof
9 Feb 2021, 23:34 PM
#757
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8

Lets give it incendiary rounds then. Not AP rounds, HMG42 incendiary ones.
jump backJump back to quoted post25 Nov 2015, 11:09 AM$nuffy
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
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SkysTheLimit
10 Feb 2021, 00:33 AM
#758
avatar of SkysTheLimit

Posts: 3423 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post9 Feb 2021, 23:22 PMVipper

One can spot with pyro tommies (even more so in cover). There is no reason for an HMG with 52 range.

In other words, yes it still needs to set up first, and yes it still has the same sight range as other MGs...
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Vipper
10 Feb 2021, 08:54 AM
#759
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post10 Feb 2021, 00:33 AMSkysTheLimit

In other words, yes it still needs to set up first, and yes it still has the same sight range as other MGs...

If you have trouble understanding the advantage of extra range (and damage and penetration) I can not really help you.
:)
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minhuh064
10 Feb 2021, 11:58 AM
#760
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Posts: 63

Then makes all HMG the same, Mortar the same, AT gun the sam. Why Ost Mortar can outrange US one but UK HMG cant outrange Axis HMG?
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