[Winter Balance Update] UKF Feedback

So now in your opinion Vickers needs to have more range in order to fight Axis HMG

Its not going to hurt it.
There is no reason why it shouldn't have that trait as timed vet1 ability and even you haven't provided a coherent argument why.

You aware that you are contradicting yourself, right?

Pls stop projecting.

If you do not have tool A, tool B needs to cover for it and do more.

You know, like whole fucking brit roster.

Alternately: Perhaps the faction should simply get tool A. Trying to make tool B cover for A "and more" has been the cause of a lot of the headaches surrounding UKF balancing.

Alternately: Perhaps the faction should simply get tool A. Trying to make tool B cover for A "and more" has been the cause of a lot of the headaches surrounding UKF balancing.

What you think is more likely to happen?
Reworking vet ability that is already reworked on balance preview mod, or add another unit to the roster despite players asking for it and pointing out it being an issue since day 1 of the faction?

What you think is more likely to happen?
Reworking vet ability that is already reworked on balance preview mod, or add another unit to the roster despite players asking for it and pointing out it being an issue since day 1 of the faction?

I'd certainly like to hope the latter, as Lelic's insistence of clinging to terrible design decisions hamstrings UKF balance.

Yes UKF luck mortar but there is no relevance between that and having a HMG with 52 range.

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Can't return fire with what? An mg42? Mortar will still work. The whole point of MGs is to prevent the target from returning fire. So you flank it with something else or shell it with arty

I would like to see that maneuver in practice cause Idk how that would even work. There's a lot of time where the Vickers isn't firing if you're moving it AND using the ability

If it was a passive trait no longer tied to garrisons yeah it would be OP as hell. As a timed ability with a forced reload? Don't see how


Yeah I think those units are fine? And there are many examples of things those units spot for outranging their target, just not MGs, which aren't meant to fight eachother anyway

The problem with "just buy a mortar" is the opposing brit player doesn't have to do that. So he gets another section or something else because the MG can both dislodge other MGs AND doesn't have to spend manpower elsewhere. Similar problem with the zis barrage. Yeah it's an AT gun but it can also just get rid of MG teams because it's a "field gun". Even though soviets have a perfectly fine mortar. At a cost? Sure, but if it makes your opponent retreat and you get territory for it it's all worth it.

Really am trying not to sound elitist right here but you should try paths (probably I&R paths) against OST players. When they go MG42 opener which basically is 90% of all games it just invalidates the MG because your troops can see it basically all the time. And it's "balanced" you could say because paths otherwise are pretty meh alone in combat and airborne ones are just in need of help and the doctrines are meh etc. It is really is frustrating to have the backbone of your OST comp just not function because of a single unit.

Lastly I never liked the "Well MG damage doesn't matter because MGs shouldn't fight MGs for long periods of time" arguement. Yeah in a perfect world everyone has mortars in their comp and has flanking infantry and smoke etc, but it's no secret that in teamgames when you're holding a garrison and your opponent is holding the other, damage is what matters, and the vickers is no slouch in that.

What about it can only be activated if set up and if u set up again it reset duration ? so u can't just activate the ability and then position out of range, either u calculate the range before u set up or use it defensively

You have to katitof about that according to who:

"If you're fighting HMGs using HMGs you are already doing it wrong."

If UKF need more tools to deal with HMG there are better solution than vickers.

My dude, you created lots of comments and replies that bring 0 value to balance discussion. First you make an argument and when it crumbles - you start asking ridiculous questions. By the looks of it I'm not the only one here to receive a facepalm about your shenanigans.

Also pretty sure that we won't see any major rework of UKF, then why do you even bring up complex issues you have 0 idea how to properly solve or with full knowledge that nothing major would be done to it?

Hoping you have same at least same amount of hours in the game you have posts on the forum.

The problem with "just buy a mortar" is the opposing brit player doesn't have to do that. So he gets another section or something else because the MG can both dislodge other MGs AND doesn't have to spend manpower elsewhere. Similar problem with the zis barrage. Yeah it's an AT gun but it can also just get rid of MG teams because it's a "field gun". Even though soviets have a perfectly fine mortar. At a cost? Sure, but if it makes your opponent retreat and you get territory for it it's all worth it.

I do feel the ZiS barrage is even more useful than this ability though. And easier to use. Like I agree the stats of the ability are very very good, I just believe the requirements for using it are a good balancing mechanism

Really am trying not to sound elitist right here but you should try paths (probably I&R paths) against OST players. When they go MG42 opener which basically is 90% of all games it just invalidates the MG because your troops can see it basically all the time. And it's "balanced" you could say because paths otherwise are pretty meh alone in combat and airborne ones are just in need of help and the doctrines are meh etc. It is really is frustrating to have the backbone of your OST comp just not function because of a single unit.

I use paths from airborne frequently in team games. They are super useful and very underrated. If this is about scouting then aren't pyro tommies the problem? I see your point clearly but I don't get why it shows the new ability is an issue. Like I don't think pyro tommies needed smoke tbh which sort of relates to this situation

Lastly I never liked the "Well MG damage doesn't matter because MGs shouldn't fight MGs for long periods of time" arguement. Yeah in a perfect world everyone has mortars in their comp and has flanking infantry and smoke etc, but it's no secret that in teamgames when you're holding a garrison and your opponent is holding the other, damage is what matters, and the vickers is no slouch in that.

That's valid but it's also kinda why I think the ability is fine. This is just giving the vickers a better version of what it already does

The pen bonus doesn't make any sense to me though. That seems completely unnecessary. Like lights should able to run up and get behind the Vickers easily while it's using the ability. Brits are okay against LVs now I don't think they need more soft AT

What about it can only be activated if set up and if u set up again it reset duration ? so u can't just activate the ability and then position out of range, either u calculate the range before u set up or use it defensively

the ability effect stops when you pack up HMG.


So there are actually issues with the ability which can make it a bit toxic:

a) if the squad in nothing less then green cover it is almost always a guaranteed suppression effect on the target. And if you put it in practice that means it become a likely retreat.
b) it is way too cheap (15 munies) and the cooldown is too low (50 sec general cooldown - 20 sec ability duration = 30 sec ability cooldown).

a+b = a likely forced retreat for a price of 15 munies. Actually the range increase is not that drastic (at least it seems like it to me)

Solution is just decrease suppression potential at far range so the enemy could react and reposition the squad if it is not in green cover. Also accuracy increase does not make a lot of sense. The health damage and possible model drops is enough for munies being well spent.

I agree that ability needs some attention, but I'd like it to stay in the game.

I genuinely can't decide whether or not explaining this is a valuable use of my time, because it will probably be called irrelevent.

It is not a waste of your time.
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The decision change the ability from passive to active is weird. Vickers in live is a defensive tool that fits the faction design.

If the aim is to make "ability be more useful in the majority of situation" as the patch notes say there is little reason to keep the extra range, it already get more DPS and Penetration, or it could even get more bonus if it needed. In the end of the day since Vickers is also water cooled HMG it could follow the Maxim ability and get something similar.

If the MOD feels that UKF need better tools vs HMG for UKF there are units that better suited for that role and they could improve them instead of making a vickers more difficult to counter and able to counter enemy HMG.

There is little reason for an HMG to have 52 range and to experiment with something it has the potential to create more problem than it will solve.

it is actually a waste of my time responding to users that are trying to pick a fight and you are not one of them

Still waiting on you to provide a "better solution than vickers" for UK to deal with mortars.

delet ukf

The extra range for the Vickers is hardly relevant compared to the penetration buff that allows it to kill Axis lights. That's what's going to make the most difference in making Vickers more viable.

Bring back the password protected trench and the vickers vet 1 range bonuses in the trench and other buildings.

I still have gameplay videos of these and they were awesome to use

Still waiting on you to provide a "better solution than vickers" for UK to deal with mortars.

I do not understand your questions, how is vickers going to help UKF to deal with mortars?

Generally speaking UKF is one of worse designed faction which is really a shame because the hammer/anvil idea has real potential.

If you want to read my suggestion about UKF you can find them in the first pages of this thread.

Still waiting on you to provide a "better solution than vickers" for UK to deal with mortars.

The better solution is to give UKF a nondoctrinal Mortar, or an unit with a similar role such as the previously suggested "Forward Observation Officer".

Square Peg != Round Hole, and trying to force it to fit is why UKF is a mess.

The better solution is to give UKF a nondoctrinal Mortar, or an unit with a similar role such as the previously suggested "Forward Observation Officer".

Square Peg != Round Hole, and trying to force it to fit is why UKF is a mess.

Let's be real here - drastic changes like that are very likely not to happen so jamming a square peg into a round hole is the best that will maybe happen.

Let's be real here - drastic changes like that are very likely not to happen so jamming a square peg into a round hole is the best that will maybe happen.

UKF gaining a Mortar is only a "Drastic" change because Lelic maintain this weird autism when it comes to UKF's "Theme". They already have a mortar in Lendlease, and it doesn't break the faction to have it. Making it nondoctrinal fixes some factional issues with (as far as I can see) little to no downside.

UKF can deal with mg no problem. Flank it, buy sniper/light vehicles heck bren carrier can do it which you can buy at the start wth you guys smoking

UKF can deal with mg no problem. Flank it, buy sniper/light vehicles heck bren carrier can do it which you can buy at the start wth you guys smoking

Ostheer have a sniper that comes much sooner than UKF's. UKF's sniper comes around the time Ostheer would be building their 222, giving it rather a short window to "deal with an MG" (Even shorter if it's immediately countersniped by the Osther sniper)

The UC is... OK as an MG counter, but it's quite vulnerable to being zoned or even outright killed by Grenadiers's fausts, and even by the MG if it enters its arc (Especially if said MG is veterancy one and pops Incendiary rounds). It also ceases to be a threat to your MG when the 222 or PAK hits the field.

UKF also only have a single light vehicle, in the AEC... which kind of isnt an "AI" unit, and isnt really able to "deal with" an MG before itself is dealt with/zoned by a PAK gun, or grenadiers.

None of this, barring the UC (Which is sub-par as has been stated) is useful in the first few minutes, which is when UKF want to be really dealing with an MG, as they desperately want to push off their enemy and dig in quickly. What are YOU smoking?

Ostheer, in comparison, have their own sniper, which can be built from the beginning of the game (Tier 1 is not a real delay), along with a mortar, which can similarly be built from minute one... they also have the vision afforded by their Pioneers, which outranges the opposing MG's vision, allowing them to far more easily bypass an opponent's MG, and prevent their own from being circumvented through Flanking manoeuvres. "Flank it" is not an unique concept to UKF, and honestly they don't do it as well as other armies due to needing to stick to cover.