[Winter Balance Update] UKF Feedback

absolutely correct. reload bonuses from abilities and vet only affect the actual 'reload' part of the firing delay.

MMX, does the hitbox of infantey always apply the highest damage? Or whatever is closest to center? Any idea?

absolutely correct. reload bonuses from abilities and vet only affect the actual 'reload' part of the firing delay.

Thanks, you are welcome. Very interesting, all the time I thought Jackson comes out on top with its raw damage, but that isn't true. Jackson excels in speed, accleration and moving acc but not in a static stand off.

So it seems this way when it is about static raw damage:

Vet0: SU85 > M36 = FF
Vet1: SU85 > M36 = FF
Vet2: FF > SU85* = M36
Vet3: FF > Su85 > M36*

Relation of Population/Ressources to raw damage: SU85 wins on all Vet-levels. Maybe it pays for this with its flanking exposure.

Most interestingly JPIV is similar to SU85 and beats all three TDs in a direct fight and is better versus mediums in addition, but quickly falls short, when ist comes to fighting heavy tanks (has significantly lower penetration).

*Edit: Okay we shouldn't forget that SU85 gets 30% bonus Penetration at Vet2, M36 gets it at Vet3, FF doesn't get it (instead it gets the 40 damage). That does mean that FF stays not always on top versus heavy tanks.

Annoying that rather than make the mortar pit an empty object engies can build to put a worse mortar in that then makes its range slightly better, basically removing the cancer that everyone hates to either use or fight against, that they instead decide to make the pit stronger in late game.....

The issue with the pit is its possitioning, if its in a good position its OP auto attack makes it, OP. Yet in a bad spot its borderline useless.

Give UKF a crappy mortar, let engies build a pit for it, done. UKF have no fast way to deal with MG's or enemy indirect. If you go sniper for the MG's you'll get LV rushed, if you go engies for mortar you've just spent 560 MP... that can get killed incredibly fast.

Well, the mod team say no to a stock land mattress, so it have to be made with what we got.

Say, if Ro.E can have a rework, since just swap them to t0 wont be attractive enough. As i already suggest giving them rifles, how about give them a rifle grenade upgrade, (lee enfield rifle grenade animation do exist and look very nice)

Ofc, this rifle grenade shouldn't auto attack to not become another annoying case like echelon. Instead they will have a smoke launcher ability and a barrage ability that fire 3-4 grenade. This can be a pretty handy way to offer a mobile smoke dispenser and garrison clearing tool for the faction.

Well, the mod team say no to a stock land mattress, so it have to be made with what we got.

Say, if Ro.E can have a rework, since just swap them to t0 wont be attractive enough. As i already suggest giving them rifles, how about give them a rifle grenade upgrade, (lee enfield rifle grenade animation do exist and look very nice)

Ofc, this rifle grenade shouldn't auto attack to not become another annoying case like echelon. Instead they will have a smoke launcher ability and a barrage ability that fire 3-4 grenade. This can be a pretty handy way to offer a mobile smoke dispenser and garrison clearing tool for the faction.

Now THAT would be neat. Crutching on snipers is the worst, especially with new changes.

A review of pop costs may be needed as 2 engineers will be a bare minimum.

MMX, does the hitbox of infantey always apply the highest damage? Or whatever is closest to center? Any idea?

i'd guess whatever edge of the hitbox is closest to the center of the blast defines the distance and, hence, how much AoE damage is applied. in case of a circular hitbox this simply means you can subtract its radius from the distance between the position of the entity and shell impact. or, in other words, add the radius to the (n,m,f) AoE distances that define the AoE curve.
for a square hitbox this would obviously depend on the facing angle of the entity with respect to the center of impact.
hope that makes it at least somewhat clear what i mean... if not, feel free to drop me a PM since i'm afraid this is going quite off-topic already.

The refusal to consider bringing in doctrinal units or change Brit upgrades more or less makes it impossible to make them an interesting faction.

It already has the smallest unit roster and it is further cut down by the tech tree.

Now THAT would be neat. Crutching on snipers is the worst, especially with new changes.

A review of pop costs may be needed as 2 engineers will be a bare minimum.

If given one, Ro.E rifle should be just like CE in term of performance. And if the UC can be allowed to capture point (with a fuels cost), the 1.25 capture rate maybe nolonger needed.

For the sniper, the change seem to affect UKF the most, since he fire slowest, so the micro tax one have to pay for an UK sniper and a spotting squad is not reward enough, on top of that, the critical shot become more difficult to use since a spotter is needed before vet 2.

I thing it this is a good time to consider give the UKF sniper a proper sniper rifle. The weapons itself - Sniper lee enfield rifle - already exist. The critical shot ability may just bugger off since there are enough complaint about it already and snare has become more accessible. The ability to call in base arty is unique enough, rate of fire can be between soviet and ost sniper.

It already has the smallest unit roster and it is further cut down by the tech tree.

UKF has 30 different units. OKW has 28, Ostheer has 31 and Soviets and USF have 33.

UKF has 30 different units. OKW has 28, Ostheer has 31 and Soviets and USF have 33.

I think he means non doc

The refusal to consider bringing in doctrinal units or change Brit upgrades more or less makes it impossible to make them an interesting faction.

It already has the smallest unit roster and it is further cut down by the tech tree.

UKF has 10 standard stock units (11 with medic squad) + 2 side tech ones + 2 emplacements (mortar pit and 17 pdr)
Most commanders give you 1-2 doctrinal units as well
Soviets have 11 units in T2 builds, 14 with T1.
USF with one officer tech has 9 units (plus ambulance and the officer) or 12 if everything is teched (+2 officers)
OKW has 11/14 depending if you want to have full tech (+1 for the KT on full tech)
Only Ostheer has a lot more with 15 if you go for full tech.


Not sure what your point is. If it comes down to builds, I agree that UKF is a bit bland because of they are missing the indirect and a second LV, so their tech is quite predictable (especially in the current meta). On the other hand all faction except for Ostheer usually go 3-4 mainlines +2-3 support weapons on the infantry part.

Not sure what your point is. If it comes down to builds, I agree that UKF is a bit bland because of they are missing the indirect and a second LV, so their tech is quite predictable (especially in the current meta).

I do think thats the point. Isn't it always 3-4 IS + maybe an UC (or seldom a vickers) into Bolster + Sappers and 6pdr into AEC (maybe add a Landing Officer or sometimes Sniper)?

Emplacements are another failure, with the exception of that one good placed (screened) mortar pit. Bofors and 17pdr are rarely seen (atm Bofors gets locked out anyway). That whole concept can't hold its ground.

Then you have to lock out either Comet or Heavy Engineers/Churchill. In fact you go either for Comet or Heavy Engineers.

Lets have a look at the other allied factions: If I play soviet I play all 8 units of T0, T1 and T2 in different matchups/maps. That alone is a diverse starting. Its similar when playing USF, sometimes you go Lieutenant, sometimes Captain. That alone are completely different decisions that lead to different playstyles.


For more diversity:

- Sappers in T0 with some extented combat utility
- maybe Anvil/Hammer shouldn't lock out the other units, but only the other abilities (same approach as for Bofors/AEC)
- of course UKF needs an onmap nondoc artillery unit (still hope for another solution than extended mortar pit)

UKF has 30 different units. OKW has 28, Ostheer has 31 and Soviets and USF have 33.

Almost all of which are locked into single doctrines. Many of which would clean a lot of the problems with Brits if they were added to the mainline roster.

UKF has 10 standard stock units (11 with medic squad) + 2 side tech ones + 2 emplacements (mortar pit and 17 pdr)
Most commanders give you 1-2 doctrinal units as well
Soviets have 11 units in T2 builds, 14 with T1.
USF with one officer tech has 9 units (plus ambulance and the officer) or 12 if everything is teched (+2 officers)
OKW has 11/14 depending if you want to have full tech (+1 for the KT on full tech)
Only Ostheer has a lot more with 15 if you go for full tech.


Not sure what your point is. If it comes down to builds, I agree that UKF is a bit bland because of they are missing the indirect and a second LV, so their tech is quite predictable (especially in the current meta). On the other hand all faction except for Ostheer usually go 3-4 mainlines +2-3 support weapons on the infantry part.

Its more than that. The faction has a bunch of stuff that just doesn't perform the way it should or is incredibly awkward to use in its intended role. Especially at T2, where the entire tier is a mess.

Royal Engineers coming out in T2 means that a large chunk of their role was either automated (self repair) or else moved onto sections. (Trenches, Caches) The unit needs to either lean harder into its short range role or else its utility role.

The Assault Officer has an awkward combination of abilities, and being able to purchase only a single one limits what kind of playstyles you can use with him. Like the Engineers, I think he should lean more into the CQC role, more into the officer role, or else be redesigned so you can call in multiples. Funnily enough it also would probably be the best user of the Arty calldowns, yet doesn't have access to them.

IS also don't really get weapon upgrades for their line units in the midgame. This works for Soviets, (arguably) but its forced some awkward abilities (cover bonus, 5 man) on IS to keep them relevant with other factions. A lot of this could be rectified to rethinking the IS upgrades, but any push toward that gets stonewalled. Weapons like the Vickers have little role in the game, but could be easily redesigned to give IS some attacking power for example.

Even the Snipers AT role is incredibly awkward to use, and he's often too valuable to risk using in that manner for what is often a fairly 'meh' set of crits.

The tech upgrades (AEC/Bofors) are likewise uninteresting. They should have worked like Hammer/Anvil (unlocking multiple units and upgrades) but not locked each other out of being purchased. This would work as a mini tier where you would have the choice to invest in 0, 1, or 2 before going up to T3, with tradeoffs to each choice.

And this is all before we even get into its lack of choices in light vehicle play.

Not everyone needs to have everything in their stock roster down to the last detail. Some armies need doctrines for certain classes of units such as Rocket Artillery for the UKF.

That's fine, the factions are supposed to be asymmetrical. That's what commanders are there for. If anyone likes playing UKF with Rocket Artillery they can select the Mobile Assault Regiment.

Not everyone needs to have everything in their stock roster down to the last detail. Some armies need doctrines for certain classes of units such as Rocket Artillery for the UKF.

That's fine, the factions are supposed to be asymmetrical. That's what commanders are there for. If anyone likes playing UKF with Rocket Artillery they can select the Mobile Assault Regiment.

Doctrines should give elite units or alternate units. They shouldn't fill a complete gap.

The Calliope or Priest for example are alternate indirect fire units. Although USF has no rocket artillery or artillery unit with the range of priest in its nondoc roster it has mobile howitzers and M8A1, so its not a complete blank spot, just an alternate or superior way.

UKF on the other hand is the only faction that is missing a spot completely: Indirect fire... no the mortar pit in its current form doesn't fill that spot.

No faction should be forced into taking always the same 1-2 commanders to fill a gap in their nondoc roster.

Doctrines should give elite units or alternate units. They shouldn't fill a complete gap.

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Only if the faction is not designed to have superior unit exactly because it has gaps in roster. If you want USF to have the same tools as Ostheer then riflemen should be toned down to grenadier level, Stuart to 222 level and so on...

Only if the faction is not designed to have superior unit exactly because it has gaps in roster. If you want USF to have the same tools as Ostheer then riflemen should be toned down to grenadier level, Stuart to 222 level and so on...

USF has no gaps in its roster. I took USF as an example for doctrinal alternate/superior units although they already have inferior stock units for it. Thats how it should be. So I don't understand your comment.

USF has no gaps in its roster. I took USF as an example for doctrinal alternate/superior units although they already have inferior stock units for it. Thats how it should be. So I don't understand your comment.

Only if the faction is not designed to have superior unit exactly because it has gaps in roster.

If you want UKF to have the same tools as Ostheer then Infantry sections should be toned down to grenadier level, AEC to 222 level and so on...

Indirect fire being one of UKF's gaps isn't a huge issue to me. If you really need rocket artillery the Land Mattress doctrine is there, but otherwise the base artillery does the job just fine for attacking static positions. You can always sneak a sniper close to the position if you can't approach with a Pyro Section, which is even easier to use with the smoke drop.

Only if the faction is not designed to have superior unit exactly because it has gaps in roster.

If you want UKF to have the same tools as Ostheer then Infantry sections should be toned down to grenadier level, AEC to 222 level and so on...

If you want Soviet to have the same tools as Ostheer then Penals should be toned down to grenadier level, T70 to 222 level and so on...

Just made this complete for you, not that we missed one of the three superior allied faction in the end. XD


I don't think you can compare just Infantry sections to Grenadiers. Ostheer has a whole different playstyle with best nondoc ingame MG playing a big role. Ostheer mobile mortars are great too in addition (fire rate and accuracy), something UKF is missing completely with the exception of one commander. Grenadiers have much more of a supporting role than IS who are the backbone of UKF early game.

AEC and 222? How can you even think about putting this two in the same sentence? Completely different roles, completely different tech and timing...

All I was speaking about is that no faction shoukld have a complete blind spot which results in taking the same doctrines game after game again to fill that blind spot. That doesn't leads to game diversity, it is the opposite. If a faction is superior in specific spots, it should have inferior units instead of a blind spot in other aspects of the game.