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[Winter Balance Update] OST Feedback

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Pip
27 Jan 2021, 18:53 PM
#781
avatar of Pip

Posts: 1594

jump backJump back to quoted post27 Jan 2021, 18:52 PMKatitof

If meta will completely shift over to them, they'll be next.

However they do have very clear hardcounters from get go, so its a matter of quickly identifying them and then they can be rolled over.


I don't see any reason they need to be nerfed, unlike the VSL and Ostruppen upgrade. You say yourself that they have well defined weaknesses.
27 Jan 2021, 19:19 PM
#782
avatar of KahootKing

Posts: 34



I have bad news for you if you play 1v1 mostly. OH right now is at it's strongest when you play whatever of the meta strats.

Enjoy Osttruppen/Assault Grens/5VSL at their peak.


Ah yes, I tried playing OH with normal grens. :help:
30 Jan 2021, 13:07 PM
#783
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1

Osttruppen currently arrive way to late and have too little utility.

Suggestions:

Reduce building time, they need about the same time as grenadiers

Osttruppen start with sandbags similar to conscripts

Osttruppen now get molotovs.
10 Feb 2021, 18:11 PM
#784
avatar of Klement Pikhtura

Posts: 772

jump backJump back to quoted post30 Jan 2021, 13:07 PMVipper
Osttruppen currently arrive way to late and have too little utility.

Suggestions:

Reduce building time, they need about the same time as grenadiers

Osttruppen start with sandbags similar to conscripts

Osttruppen now get molotovs.


you must be trolling. I can't believe that the guy with 10564 post posted this.

The delay had a clear intent to slow down very prevalent in 1v1 osttruppen strat without hard nerfing them. They are already cost efficient as is.
10 Feb 2021, 18:46 PM
#785
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1



you must be trolling. I can't believe that the guy with 10564 post posted this.

The delay had a clear intent to slow down very prevalent in 1v1 osttruppen strat without hard nerfing them. They are already cost efficient as is.

Ostruppen are nerfed too hard and are no longer relevant.

Building osttruppen give no speed benefit other than 40 manpower per squad time than in early game has very little impact and there is very little reason to use them.

If you are being serous try to be more specific with what in your opinion is wrong with suggestion:
The reduced to build?

The sandbags?
or
Molotovs?

10 Feb 2021, 18:50 PM
#786
avatar of SkysTheLimit

Posts: 3423 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post30 Jan 2021, 13:07 PMVipper

Osttruppen start with sandbags similar to conscripts

Pios already have sandbags and ostruppen have bunkers. Why do they also need sandbags?
10 Feb 2021, 18:55 PM
#787
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1


Pios already have sandbags and ostruppen have bunkers. Why do they also need sandbags?

For the same reason conscripts do.
10 Feb 2021, 18:56 PM
#788
avatar of SkysTheLimit

Posts: 3423 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post10 Feb 2021, 18:55 PMVipper

For the same reason conscripts do.

That makes no sense at all. Soviets don't have bunkers, and CEs don't have sandbags. What on earth are you talking about

Ost doesn't need any help defending territory
10 Feb 2021, 19:37 PM
#789
avatar of Aarotron

Posts: 563


That makes no sense at all. Soviets don't have bunkers, and CEs don't have sandbags. What on earth are you talking about

Ost doesn't need any help defending territory


Also dont the osttruppen recieve sandbags with the 2 cp ability at least in osttruppen doctrine? Thought of throwing even more stuff on osttruppen is bad enough of an idea, as panzergrenadiers would stay pretty much the same with only change being on grenade throw.
10 Feb 2021, 21:06 PM
#790
avatar of Klement Pikhtura

Posts: 772

jump backJump back to quoted post10 Feb 2021, 18:46 PMVipper

Ostruppen are nerfed too hard and are no longer relevant.

Building osttruppen give no speed benefit other than 40 manpower per squad time than in early game has very little impact and there is very little reason to use them.


That was the whole idea, read patch notes. Again they are already very cost-efficient to justify building them. Yes, their dps is not excellent, but their whole point being a meat shield with fausts for support weapons. And it's not like the are trading with a deficit against other mainline like grens do.

jump backJump back to quoted post10 Feb 2021, 18:46 PMVipper


The sandbags?
or
Molotovs?


Both especially molotovs.
Also there are two doctrine with ostruppen in the game and both allows for building of sandbags by infantry.
10 Feb 2021, 22:23 PM
#791
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1


That was the whole idea, read patch notes. Again they are already very cost-efficient to justify building them. Yes, their dps is not excellent, but their whole point being a meat shield with fausts for support weapons. And it's not like the are trading with a deficit against other mainline like grens do.

Have you tried them in the preview? Because they are not worth a ability slot.


Both especially molotovs.

Why?


Also there are two doctrine with ostruppen in the game and both allows for building of sandbags by infantry.

Osttruppen are not available only in 2 doctrines, they also come as reserves and from relief infatry.

Yes and thus moving them from CP 1 to CP 0 would be a minor buff that would make getting early osttruppen squad worth while, so I am not sure why you objecting to it.
10 Feb 2021, 22:42 PM
#792
avatar of Protos Angelus

Posts: 1515

jump backJump back to quoted post10 Feb 2021, 22:23 PMVipper

Have you tried them in the preview? Because they are not worth a ability slot.


Why?


Yes and thus moving them from CP 1 to CP 0 would be a minor buff that would make getting early osttruppen squad worth while, so I am not sure why you objecting to it.


With 16 reinforce cost, snare and LMG they are well worth the ability slot. You not being able to use them does not mean they are useless.
10 Feb 2021, 23:04 PM
#793
avatar of SkysTheLimit

Posts: 3423 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post10 Feb 2021, 22:23 PMVipper

Yes and thus moving them from CP 1 to CP 0 would be a minor buff that would make getting early osttruppen squad worth while, so I am not sure why you objecting to it.

Maybe because they already get a free squad from the beginning that has sandbags? And can build the best defensive MG in the entire game from their HQ?

They don't need more help defending. At any stage of the game
10 Feb 2021, 23:05 PM
#794
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8

jump backJump back to quoted post10 Feb 2021, 22:23 PMVipper

Have you tried them in the preview? Because they are not worth a ability slot.

Have you?
They literally are 80mp behind what they normally would, nothing else changed for them.
Weren't you a massive advocate of putting problematic spammable units behind tech? Where did that go now?
10 Feb 2021, 23:21 PM
#795
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1



With 16 reinforce cost, snare and LMG they are well worth the ability slot.

You mean after BP3? still not worth it.


You not being able to use them does not mean they are useless.

Have you ever used them? because according to you you play 3vs3 USF.
10 Feb 2021, 23:47 PM
#796
avatar of Protos Angelus

Posts: 1515

jump backJump back to quoted post10 Feb 2021, 23:21 PMVipper

You mean after BP3? still not worth it.


Have you ever used them? because according to you you play 3vs3 USF.


Competitively? No.
Generally? Yes.

Since the quality of games is much higher in standard custom games (same maps and resources as automatch), I'd wager a 3 yo with a broken arm could beat you spamming only ostruppen.

When you don't have any sort of argument, you use "you play ranked them????". Typical kid plays.
While they are not seen in 3v3s as they are in 1v1s, that does not make them useless. Played vs many-a-skilled players in 3v3 that managed to utilize ostruppen with their paks and MGs.

So yeah... I don't play automatch with anything except USF but have played plenty of times against ostruppen and know what works and doesn't work against them.
Unlike some people, I try to learn from loses, so that in the end, the only deciding factor is the hand-eye coordination (and not spamming M57s vs brummbars or whatnot)
11 Feb 2021, 01:49 AM
#797
avatar of EtherealDragon

Posts: 1890 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post30 Jan 2021, 13:07 PMVipper
Osttruppen currently arrive way to late and have too little utility.

Suggestions:

Reduce building time, they need about the same time as grenadiers

Osttruppen start with sandbags similar to conscripts

Osttruppen now get molotovs.


In 5.0 the 25 second build time is the same as the call-in cooldown for Osstruppen in live(also same as Grenadier build time I believe). If you reduce it any then you undermine the whole point of moving them to T1. Even a slight reduction in build time would cancel out the build time of T1 and the 80 MP delay to the next Ostruppen built.

Sandbags might be okay with the build time increase since they get them eventually and wouldn't affect late game scaling. They would need tested and maybe have build time longer than other sandbags at Vet 0 if needed. Molotovs would be hell playing as Brits as Ostruppen are already hyper MP efficient vs Tommies and constantly denying cover in a commander that typically floats munitions is a non-starter. You can't buff their combat much since their performance currently isn't an issue and you can't really have Ostruppen scaling too well or they become a no-brainer over Grens again.
11 Feb 2021, 02:10 AM
#798
avatar of GachiGasm

Posts: 1116 | Subs: 1



In 5.0 the 25 second build time is the same as the call-in cooldown for Osstruppen in live(also same as Grenadier build time I believe). If you reduce it any then you undermine the whole point of moving them to T1. Even a slight reduction in build time would cancel out the build time of T1 and the 80 MP delay to the next Ostruppen built.


Point to begine with wasnt to adress osttroopen timing. Otherwise there would be no reason to move them to T1, instead of just increasing cooldown could have been just increased. They were moved to T1 in order to adress ostts into T2 skip.
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