[Winter Balance Update] OST Feedback

Grenadiers
...
- Received Accuracy bonus from Veteran Squad Leader removed

This change will probably make 5 men vet grenadier lose to 7 Conscripts which does not make allot of sense. Why not ditch the 5 men upgrade and replace the with "new unit" with 5 entities that can be better balance.

Increase the CD on med kit for 5 men grenadiers but make the effect start instantly for all med kit.

Replace med kit as vet 1 ability with some thing else like a HE grenade.


Osttruppen
Osttruppen are being adjusted to arrive onto the battlefield slower than they did previously. This change, combined with the Ostheer tech changes should make Osttruppen strategies less dominant in smaller game modes. Osttruppen are also receiving boost to any weapon they pick up when they are fighting from cover which should improve their late game fighting potential.
- Ability recharge from 25 to 35
- When in cover, Osttruppen will receive +25% accuracy to slot items, partially negating the innate - 50% they have on slot items.

Cp 0 call in infatry are greatly affect by maps (best example rail and metal south) I strongly advice to make these unit build-able from HQ instead.

In addition ditch the LMG upgrade, provide an upgrade similar to 7 men conscript or make the able to be refitted for a different version with target size 1 and merge or replace the Lmg with some AT rifles.

Make the Osttruppen reserves an AT squad

Brummbar Bunker Buster Barrage
Given the strength and power of this ability, it is receiving a munitions cost to better reflect its power.
- Munition cost set to 30

If you add a MU cost decrease CD which around 2 minutes


Ostwind
Lower cost, lethality and increase anti light tank perofmance by increasing accuracy

222
Replace 222 with 221 making 221 cheaper with less AI but good vs micro light vehicles and with better armor

Redesign 222 as a soft anti light tank vehicles with more armor less AI

Fix incidary stuka bobming

Doctrinal
Remove Stuka bomber from elephant commander

Make spotting scopes a timed ability or directional vision ability

Replace jager infatry upgrade with new reckon squad

Redesign ST as 5 men infiltration unit as a support unit

C. Panzer
Either remove the tech or CP restrictions
Improve the AT of the Gun

Where is jager armor nerf ? This is meta problem

The Brummbar is in a very bad place as it relies almost exclusively on it's ability to manual fire to be effective. It's auto fire is awful putting it lightly... and will miss 80% of the time. For a turretless, slow firing and not to mention slow moving projectile this is a nightmare to use. It requires more micro than ANY other unit in the game and for no good reason.

I really hope the tech changes that were proposed in this thread are implemented. It would be a great smoothing of Ostheer tech and give a good placement of the Stug IIIE and Puma while leaving literally everything else the same. Personally I like Proposal A better than Proposal B but both would be gladly accepted.

Also the ostruppen nerfs aren't enough. Especially with that buff there needs to be more nerfs to ostruppen as the minor delays just don't add up to enough of a nerf to make it that much worse.

i think is fair changes.

but sniper getting sight nerf. will the ukf infantry arty upgrade be too much??

imo ost lacks non-doc recon.
with the major getting buffs, it is bad news.
with sov clown car buffs, it is bad news.
with aec non-ex, it is bad news

i suggest make 222 sight bonus on vet 1, decrease its vet requirements while at it. 222 is not in a good spot at 2v2.

Grenadiers
...
- Received Accuracy bonus from Veteran Squad Leader removed

This change will probably make 5 men vet grenadier lose to 7 Conscripts which does not make allot of sense. Why not ditch the 5 men upgrade and replace the with "new unit" with 5 entities that can be better balance.

Increase the CD on med kit for 5 men grenadiers but make the effect start instantly for all med kit.

Replace med kit as vet 1 ability with some thing else like a HE grenade.

yes agree. if VSL is nerf, than sov 7 man cons should follow

not sure why single out VSL. It is main doctrine to stand up against allies infantry.

removing RA is too much. still need at least a 15% vet bonus.

yes agree. if VSL is nerf, than sov 7 man cons should follow

Ok.
We also need to nerf Ostwind now that T-70 is nerfed.
Also nerf PaK, because ZiS is being nerfed.
This is exactly how balance works.

not sure why single out VSL. It is main doctrine to stand up against allies infantry.

Because one is overpowered meta upgrade that makes unit do things its not supposed to be doing in extremely cost efficient way and another is late game, end of the tech upgrade that leaves you with bad infantry for the whole early and mid game.

removing RA is too much. still need at least a 15% vet bonus.

Not a singular player in existence who knows how to play this game agrees.
Its doing away and its well deserved.
It was obvious its going away for a long time already.

Sandbags longer build affects only when you capture neutral territory so if first 5 min of a game. Later it doesn't matter becouse you have to decapture and recapture territory.

Ostruppen can build sandbags only via commander at 1 CP when most of the map is already split by the players.

I find it really strange that Pgrens don't get a nerf besides grenade cooldown at vet 3. Everyone can see that they overperform. Their overpowered bundlenade (for only 35 lmao) combined with their dps will almost guaranteed wipe an allied squad. The allied player cant do anything to counter that. even fullhealth retreat squads get wiped if you can time the grenade a little bit.

definitely a too strong combination and should definitely be looked at.

I find it really strange that Pgrens don't get a nerf besides grenade cooldown at vet 3. Everyone can see that they overperform. Their overpowered bundlenade (for only 35 lmao) combined with their dps will almost guaranteed wipe an allied squad. The allied player cant do anything to counter that. even fullhealth retreat squads get wiped if you can time the grenade a little bit.

definitely a too strong combination and should definitely be looked at.

Their OPness comes from their irrationally early timing provided by T1 skip.

FHT
Suggestion:
Lower price of upgrade
Remove DOT from attacks adjust DPs slightly
increase armor
Add an ability that create the dot.


That would lower the shock value of the unit

I think the grenade for pgrens is a problem for squads on retreat. Even a fullhealth squad gets wiped on retreat. Even if you dont time the nade well, the pgrens will 95% of the times finish the squad off with their dps. There is no counter paly for the allied player.

I suggest nerfing the AOE from the bundle nades and make them less wipy. Or nerf the damage of the bundle nade.

35 ammo is definitely too cheap for a grenade with this power.

Stug twp should be on different reload from main gun

i think is fair changes.

but sniper getting sight nerf. will the ukf infantry arty upgrade be too much??

imo ost lacks non-doc recon.
with the major getting buffs, it is bad news.
with sov clown car buffs, it is bad news.
with aec non-ex, it is bad news

i suggest make 222 sight bonus on vet 1, decrease its vet requirements while at it. 222 is not in a good spot at 2v2.

- clown car has less armor now, so it should be more easy so deal with normal gun fire. But I wasn't able to really test it.

- like Vipper's idea, I would like so see 222 having a recone-ability. Like exlcusive non-doc scope for Vet1, replace the docrine-version with something else. So Ost gets its recoon.

I think the grenade for pgrens is a problem for squads on retreat. Even a fullhealth squad gets wiped on retreat. Even if you dont time the nade well, the pgrens will 95% of the times finish the squad off with their dps. There is no counter paly for the allied player.

I suggest nerfing the AOE from the bundle nades and make them less wipy. Or nerf the damage of the bundle nade.

35 ammo is definitely too cheap for a grenade with this power.

Don't touch the bundle, simply replace it with normal nade for PnzGrens. So it becomes an exclusive for Sturmtruppen. (OKW's Obers and Fallschirmjäger).

I find it really strange that Pgrens don't get a nerf besides grenade cooldown at vet 3. Everyone can see that they overperform. Their overpowered bundlenade (for only 35 lmao) combined with their dps will almost guaranteed wipe an allied squad. The allied player cant do anything to counter that. even fullhealth retreat squads get wiped if you can time the grenade a little bit.

definitely a too strong combination and should definitely be looked at.

Absolutely this.

They should be moved back to T2.

Don't touch the bundle, simply replace it with normal nade for PnzGrens. So it becomes an exclusive for Sturmtruppen. (OKW's Obers and Fallschirmjäger).

Yes, also a good solution

Absolutely this.

They should be moved back to T2.

ye agreed.

ye agreed.

They where not cost effective in T2 that is why they where moved in the first place.

Unless they see a cost reduction to something like 300 they are not cost efficient in t2.

I one insist on allowing these infantries so early one should follow the PF desing and have them cost 280/300 start with 2 ST and 2 K98 and have to buy the other 2 ST44. That could also help with g43/shrek

Maybe set a timer PnzGrens after T2-tech? Lets say, 2min? So they would arrive 2min later...