[Winter Balance Update] USF Feedback

Might as well just swap the Scott for the Priest if they want to gut its auto abilities.

At least it can perform as psuedo (bad) rocket artillery and has the range to actually be useful.

Still have no idea how USF is supposed to deal with Axis elite infantry late game now with the 50 cal, Pack Howie, and Scott all getting gutted.

You have your own elite infantry (Paras come to mind) and CalliOP spam seems to be the meta in 4v4. I also don't recall 50 call DPS/Suppression being nerfed. Extremely oppressive unit for OKW to get rid of, LEFHs don't do anything worth mentioning vs it and diving often fails due to it requiring 3 shots,nobounce,nomiss,nointerception, etc.

I didn't say stock roster. They have too much indirect fire overlap in their entire roster. It's the same with all the Sherman variants. Relic should've come up with more diverse units (like the Jumbo). Swapping all kinds of things now isn't going to fix that.

2/3 of the sherman variants are only an issue becuase they provide nothing to the faction as the jackson is all you ever need for AT. they are victim to factiona design falling apart, not overlap. they DID fill roles that were not found elsewhere (AT unit that could take some hits) inversely if we walk backwards with that conclusin we can make other USF indirect units overlap less

mortar-
fast. cheap, mostly a smoke dispenser, can help dislodge units in cover/ garrison

pak howi-
mini mobile howitzer. get rid of the auto fire so its not a super mortar that can ALSO barrage at great range. focus on barrages. make cheaper.
now the mortar has a role even in tandem with the pak howi.
scott-
more or less what the pak howi is now but more mobile.
justified with the fuel cost it gives usf a constant bleeder alternative to rocket arty. maybe give the barrage suppression to act as a blob punisher?
now that the elefant/JT cant OHK the scott it should go down to a 2hk from standard AT so they dont get abused en mass as the range is enough combined with the escape smoke.

calliope-
quite diffeent than stock options, delivery system completely different and not an issue for overlap
priest-
heavy indirect barraging. not an overlap issue.

mortar halftack-
mobile with a variety of shells including the "fuck your medtruck" barrage
unique and not an issue.

now all usf indirect fire fills a niche and can coexist without one making the others pointless.

You have your own elite infantry (Paras come to mind) and CalliOP spam seems to be the meta in 4v4. Extremely oppressive unit for OKW to get rid of, LEFHs don't do anything worth mentioning vs it and diving often fails due to it requiring 3 shots,nobounce,nomiss,nointerception, etc.

Oh good. More doctrinal answers to other factions stock units.

This right here.

If the balance team is insisting on making Scott barrage-focused artillery unit rather than a frontline auto-fire unit, range of the barrage should be buffed so that it's actually useful in the late-game.

In exchange, smoke cannister can be removed to make the unit more vulnerable to dives.

The unit would likely need a health and armour reduction as well, if this were the case. It's approximately as survivable as a Stuart, an unit that's intended to be on or near the frontlines.

Oh good. More doctrinal answers to other factions stock units.

You are not supposed to defeat T4 infantry with your stock infantry (and panzergrens are also much more expensive than rifles but you still have plenty of tools for dealing with them too iirc)....but last I checked, Scott and Sherman still beat Axis elite infantry easily. The Axis equivalent I have to do every match vs UKF because IS just walk over volks so I have to engage with full combined arms.

I fully expect the next iteration to fully put back BARs into Piñata mode.
Not sure what to think of this new Scott, it likely won't stop 2mg 2atg builds from pummeling USF unless they are way ahead in fuel, at least the barrage looks cooler now (?)

RIP WC51 Crew and USF's Pop-Cap Feature.

Seems like USF will go back to being a niche/weak pick in most game modes, compared to Brits/Soviets, oh well.

I fully expect the next iteration to fully put back BARs into Piñata mode.
Not sure what to think of this new Scott, it likely won't stop 2mg 2atg builds from pummeling USF unless they are way ahead in fuel, at least the barrage looks cooler now (?)

RIP WC51 Crew and USF's Pop-Cap Feature.

Seems like USF will go back to being a niche/weak pick in most game modes, compared to Brits/Soviets, oh well.

TBH, did anyone use the Pop cap? It's super micro intensive especially in teamgames where you usually need to retreat more squads of units due to the larger number of heavy arty.
The WC51 crew is a good nerf, I guess well deserved, although not in the spirit of USF (my biggest complain). WC51 needed a nerf in some other way. Don't know what to nerf. I never play that commander.
The scott. Sander convinced me about it's new role so I endorse it. Pak howi needs a smaller nerf to the AOE. Not the -50% but -30% or -25%. The ~ -50% nerf on the AOE is a bit too much for such a slow and vulnerable howitzer.

TBH, did anyone use the Pop cap? It's super micro intensive especially in teamgames where you usually need to retreat more squads of units due to the larger number of heavy arty.
The WC51 crew is a good nerf, I guess well deserved, although not in the spirit of USF (my biggest complain). WC51 needed a nerf in some other way. Don't know what to nerf. I never play that commander.
The scott. Sander convinced me about it's new role so I endorse it. Pak howi needs a smaller nerf to the AOE. Not the -50% but -30% or -25%. The ~ -50% nerf on the AOE is a bit too much for such a slow and vulnerable howitzer.

I only ever really used it when spamming M10s, it's not a big deal and it should have been fixed awhile ago, I'll still miss it, specially memeing on people about it not being a bug nor a exploit, but a "feature".

Yeah, Mechanized can go to the bench, just give me CavRifles in another doctrine without a cheese truck.

I've yet to try the Scott in an actual game, I'm sure it will be good in the new role, but not one-shotting Snipers anymore and ATGs returning fire will never not be lame.

RIP Pack Howitzer for sure, didn't even give it back the 6th man.

1. How about adding +30 or+40 hp bonus at vet3 for m20 to prevent 2 shots death.

2. How about giving riflemen smoke back if he choose commander which has rifleman field defense or to rifleman company.

1. How about adding +30 or+40 hp bonus at vet3 for m20 to prevent 2 shots death.

2. How about giving riflemen smoke back if he choose commander which has rifleman field defense or to rifleman company.

M20 does not need survivability buffs. It needs, if anything, a top gunner buff.
Rifleman have lost their smoke and should be kept that way. As a mainline unit, don't see how smoke is a natural item for them. REs and officers are more than enough. Remove the "Granade!" sound effect when launching the smoke. That would be welcome.

"M1 81mm Mortar
We are slightly adjusting the scatter of the 81mm Mortar to match the accuracy of other mortars and be more accurate than its auto-fire.
Barrage scatter angle from 10 to 9
Distance scatter max from 8 to 7"

This change is step in the wrong direction since it will make the USF mortar superior to Ostheer one (at least according to MMX analysis) and that will be a bad designed call since Ostheer are pretty bad at attacking USF positions.

"M1 81mm Mortar
We are slightly adjusting the scatter of the 81mm Mortar to match the accuracy of other mortars and be more accurate than its auto-fire.
Barrage scatter angle from 10 to 9
Distance scatter max from 8 to 7"

This change is step in the wrong direction since it will make the USF mortar superior to Ostheer one (at least according to MMX analysis) and that will be a bad designed call since Ostheer are pretty bad at attacking USF positions.

uhm... i don't remember having concluded anything like that. in fact, the proposed change would bring the m1's performance roughly on par with that of the grw34, as apart from the 5 range difference both mortars would end up with essentially the same combat stats.

uhm... i don't remember having concluded anything like that. in fact, the proposed change would bring the m1's performance roughly on par with that of the grw34, as apart from the 5 range difference both mortars would end up with essentially the same combat stats.

You have a comparison of mortar autofire and the Ostheer/USF mortar are very close, buffing the USF mortar will make it superior.


https://www.coh2.org/file/19125/auto-wide-te.png

It would be great if you run the number again including this change and check the result.

You have a comparison of mortar autofire and the Ostheer/USF mortar are very close, buffing the USF mortar will make it superior.

The barrage is being changed, not the autofire.

The barrage is being changed, not the autofire.

Same applies:
https://www.coh2.org/file/19127/barrage-clumped-te.png

USf have little to no reason to have superior or even equal mortar with Ostheer. Espcailly since the Pak howitzer is the best "mortar type" weapon.

You have a comparison of mortar autofire and the Ostheer/USF mortar are very close, buffing the USF mortar will make it superior.


https://www.coh2.org/file/19125/auto-wide-te.png

It would be great if you run the number again including this change and check the result.

the autofire performance shown in these graphs is essentially identical... which it should as both mortars have identical autofire scatter and aoe profiles. the slight variation in the curves for the m1 and grw34 is solely due to the inherent inaccuracy of the simulation (it's just a numerical approximation, not a discrete solution, so each time you re-run it the outcome is a tiny bit different)

i think you've just misread the changelog... or better, the log is inaccurare. the "distance scatter max from 8 to 7" part most likely affects the barrage only, not the autofire, because that would give both mortars identical stats (minus the range difference).

read post 215 pls.

Buffing USF mortar to be better or equal than ostheer one is a step in the wrong direction and contrary to faction desing.

The range difference is of little importance.

Same applies:
https://www.coh2.org/file/19127/barrage-clumped-te.png

USf have little to no reason to have superior or even equal mortar with Ostheer. Espcailly since the Pak howitzer is the best "mortar type" weapon.

One could argue the fact that Pak Howie is locked behind a tech path and the fact that USF has to face MG42 from Minute 0 means that they at least deserve a barrage that is equal to other mortars. When you factor in that Pak Howie is getting nerfed this patch, Scott autofire is getting nerfed this patch, Calliope is getting nerfed this patch then USF artillery needs something to compensate for LT builds where you're going to using the mortar first and foremost.

One could argue the fact that Pak Howie is locked behind a tech path and the fact that USF has to face MG42 from Minute 0 means that they at least deserve a barrage that is equal to other mortars. When you factor in that Pak Howie is getting nerfed this patch, Scott autofire is getting nerfed this patch, Calliope is getting nerfed this patch then USF artillery needs something to compensate for LT builds where you're going to using the mortar first and foremost.

Not really.

Ostheer have the HMG-42 because gren loose to riflemen. If USF can counter the HMG with cheaper mortar that will leave back into Riflemen beating the Grenadier and one would have to buff the grenadier to compensate.

As for Pak the nerf are hardly effective since it true power comes from its vetted barrage, WP and HEAT. The only reason why it not completely broken it is its High XP value but not matter how you look at it is best "mortar type" weapon.

As the fact the Pak has tech that mean little because it was locked behind intentional from faction design and the Tech revamp made USF allot more flexible already. On the other hand Ostheer where original designed as combined arm faction and they currently losing even in their own game.

Calliope's "nerf" means very little since all artillery received similar nerf.

Button line is USF actually have more stock option the other faction that includes: T0 mortar, Pak howizter, Scott, Major barrage (and I would also add the Sherman HE).

About USF inderect fire now:
- Nerf Autofire from Pak Howie, M8 scott is really terrible. For now, USF players need to put more Mirco so that they can have an "Okay" performance. A Concept "add more mirco to grain standard performance" is unaceptable for player base. Not to mention terrible autofire = no grinding exp.
- Second all, HEAT, WP, Scout Barrage is not for counter blob, not as all. 90% Players would use it for Ground controlling. You can say barrage can stop blob but Tightnope test and my test against AI matach, friend say NO. First round cant do jack shit against standard blob (2-3 squads A move) and good luck for the second and thirds.
-another problem is meta, new barrage is helpless against death ball of Gren truck or fast lieg gun.