[Winter Balance Update] General Discussion

Jump back to quoted post26 Feb 2021, 14:05 PMPip

As cute as this comment is, a Sniper is the most effective counter to another Sniper. A Kubelwagen, for example, is not going to counter an opposing sniper if your opponent is at all aware of his surroundings, particularly not in a 2v2. Also as others have stated; the current non-sniper sniper counters take significantly more investment to succeed than the sniper itself requires to perform his role.

There is no real reason for OKW and USF to lack this type of unit, do you have an argument against that statement other than a snide remark?

Jump back to quoted post26 Feb 2021, 14:17 PMEsxile

OKW or USF with a sniper would probably be OP as hell. USF only needs the m20 to be put around M3 level of firepower and accessible after first tier tech.
A kubelwagen gives you opportunity to chase and kill a sniper + its vet1 abiltiy, it isn't going to do it all by itself but at least you're not helpless during 6 minutes against it.

Jump back to quoted post26 Feb 2021, 14:21 PMVipper

Kubel is terrible at chasing snipers, it moving DPS is simply extremely bad and one has to point at target for vehicle to fire.

Jump back to quoted post26 Feb 2021, 14:17 PMEsxile

OKW or USF with a sniper would probably be OP as hell. USF only needs the m20 to be put around M3 level of firepower and accessible after first tier tech.
A kubelwagen gives you opportunity to chase and kill a sniper + its vet1 abiltiy, it isn't going to do it all by itself but at least you're not helpless during 6 minutes against it.

Jump back to quoted post26 Feb 2021, 15:08 PMSupport Sapper

and it is going to be buff next patch to be more effective chasing sniper. USF need the same but they dont get as much.

Jump back to quoted post26 Feb 2021, 12:59 PMKatitof

When you need sniper to counter sniper, then lack of sniper is not a problem here.

Jump back to quoted post26 Feb 2021, 14:21 PMVipper

Kubel is terrible at chasing snipers, it moving DPS is simply extremely bad and one has to point at target for vehicle to fire.

Jump back to quoted post26 Feb 2021, 15:09 PMPip

The Kubel is very bad at chasing units, it is effectively a casemate, has poor survivability, and (Currently, though this is improved in the next patch) abysmal on-the-move performance. You can't really dive past other units with a Kubelwagen to chase a sniper down. Its detection ability is fantastic, however.

Jump back to quoted post26 Feb 2021, 15:09 PMPip

What about having their own sniper would make them OP?

The other three factions have multiple sniper counters (222, UC/AEC, Scout Car/T-70-etc), along with having their own snipers for counter-sniping duties, I don't really know why the addition of this unit to either of these faction's rosters would cause them to be overly strong. USF and OKW lack the unit altogether with no discernable tradeoff.

The Kubel is very bad at chasing units, it is effectively a casemate, has poor survivability, and (Currently, though this is improved in the next patch) abysmal on-the-move performance. You can't really dive past other units with a Kubelwagen to chase a sniper down. Its detection ability is fantastic, however.

Jump back to quoted post26 Feb 2021, 15:39 PMHannibal

...

It would be very bad if a 210 MP unit could kill a 360 MP unit super quickly, especially regarding how late Allied snares come.
If the Kübel is enough to chase the sniper off the field a couple of times, it did its duty well and mitigated a lot of damage. Which in turn can make the sniper investment not worthwhile.

Jump back to quoted post26 Feb 2021, 16:08 PMSpoof

Because OKW and USF have Pathfinders and Jaegers. There's no real reason to have a sniper if you already have long range ambush infantry as opposed to short range ambush infantry like Storms and Commandos. Besides, if you made the sniper doctrinal, then the rest of the doctrine would have to be kind of shitty because a sniper by himself is pretty fucking strong. I mean, just look at the Wehr vs. Brit meta. It's literally just the Sniper carrying the entire faction on his shoulders.

Also: The other two factions don't have the same level of elite infantry that OKW and USF have. Falls, Obers, Paras, and Rangers are barely comparable to Guards, Commandos, and Shocks.

Jump back to quoted post26 Feb 2021, 15:39 PMHannibal

It would be very bad if a 210 MP unit could kill a 360 MP unit super quickly, especially regarding how late Allied snares come.
If the Kübel is enough to chase the sniper off the field a couple of times, it did its duty well and mitigated a lot of damage. Which in turn can make the sniper investment not worthwhile.

Jump back to quoted post26 Feb 2021, 17:06 PMPip

The thing with Paths and Jaegers is that they're doctrinal, whereas the other factions have their "Sniper" units nondoctrinally. USF and OKW not having Snipers would be fine if they had access to their "sniper equivalent" units in their base kit, rather than having to choose doctrines for them.

Honestly I'd ideally like if all factions had both Snipers and a Light Infantry unit of some type, particularly the latter, which are genuinely far better suited to CoH2 than snipers are.

I'd argue that Pgrens and Commandoes are absolutely comparable to USF and OKW elites, incidentally... though elite infantry comparisons aren't really relevant, surely?

Jump back to quoted post26 Feb 2021, 16:18 PMVipper

You want to compare the kubel's moving DPS vs sniper with any other micro light vehicle?
Kubel is one of worse vehicles for chasing snipers (if not the worse).

My point remains that Kubel is terrible in hunting sniper contrary to what esxile has claimed.

Jump back to quoted post26 Feb 2021, 17:30 PMSpoof

Technically OKW's sniper counter is the MG34 Obersoldaten. And believe me, it works pretty good. Only thing is it comes late. Honestly Pgrens and Commandoes are nowhere near as strong as Bazooka Rangers, LMG Obers, 4x FG42 Falls, and Paras. Pgrens are average at best for elite infantry, while Commandoes aren't nearly as flexible as the others. This is important because the extra powerful elite infantry of WFA is probably a big reason why they have no snipers.

Jump back to quoted post26 Feb 2021, 17:36 PMPip

Only if they're allowed to get into range, while if they aren't (Which isnt that tough, they move at the same speed, and snipers have fantastic vision) Snipers hardcounter units like obers. Extremely expensive models in a four-man squad don't much like being sniped. LMG obers don't have any special attributes that make them good at chasing down and killing a sniper.

Jump back to quoted post26 Feb 2021, 17:30 PMHannibal

No I don't and I never claimed so. I claimed that the Kubelwagen can mitigate the bleed of a sniper if played correctly. It won't kill it, but if it reduced the effectiveness until the mid game then that is fine as well.
Especially if you consider that it gets buffs specifically for moving damage and sniper killing in the upcoming patch.

Jump back to quoted post26 Feb 2021, 17:42 PMSpoof

??? Fire On the move LMG? Hello? Most players can't baby sit their sniper every single second so the OKW player can just attack move his Obers. Sure it'll bleed some manpower but the opponent will likely lose his sniper or it'll be forced away. It's the closest thing to a soft counter non-doctrinally.

Jump back to quoted post26 Feb 2021, 17:47 PMVipper

Building a kubel to counter a sniper does not really work since Kubel can be easily be counter by a M3 (or UC).

Jump back to quoted post26 Feb 2021, 17:47 PMVipper

The only point I have made is that this claim:

"A kubelwagen gives you opportunity to chase and kill a sniper..."

is at least an exaggeration (if not false)

Jump back to quoted post26 Feb 2021, 17:55 PMSkysTheLimit

It will work a lot better after the patch, and one of those vehicles costs fuel (Both will have fuel cost after patch)

If one is building a 210mp unit to counter a 360mp one, and the opponent needs a more expensive lights to counter that 210mp one, then I don't see what your problem could be