Will they address Panzergrens in the new patch?

Only one of these statements can be true:

A) Pgrens are extremely hard for soviets to deal with and imbalance the match-up
B) The soviet counters to Pgrens are not worth building

fixed it for ya

A) Pgrens are extremely hard for soviets to deal with and imbalance the match-up
B) the soviet`s INTENDED counter to pgrens are extremely cost inefficient and therefore not worth building



no longer mutually exclusive...

B) the soviet`s INTENDED counter to pgrens are extremely cost inefficient and therefore not worth building

So the problem lies with the soviets in general in the OST-SOV matchup, Pgrens are only a secondary concern.

CONGRATULATIONS YOU'VE REACHED THE SAME CONCLUSION AS THE BALANCE TEAM RENDERING THIS ENTIRE STUPID THREAD A MOOT POINT!

SOVs ARE BEING BUFFED EARLY GAME WHILE BOTH OST MAINLINES ARE BEING NERFED!

NOW GO APOLOGIZE TO SANDERS93

If anyone thinks that clown cars and snipers don't counter Pgrens feel free to 1v1 me. I'll play SOV with engies clown car and sniper. You can play OST with pios and Pgrens.

So what about that 1v1 offer?

So what about that 1v1 offer?

You admitted yourself that it won't prove anything. Of course that's after you modified the rules to make it a pointless endeavor.

How does one get a sniper AND a clown car AND outnumber ost in squads by the time Pgrens hit the field?

Pgrens are tough for soviets, but I dont think they are the matchup breaking unit others have implied. That said, the aforementioned line of thinking is silly and shows lack of experience.


A heavy CE build with emphasis on taking bloody fights and grabbing both tier 1 and tier 2 can get you pretty fast shock troops- right around the 4 minute mark with the mp to afford them. But aside from something nuts like this, soviets won't realistically have real counters to pgrens out in a timely fashion.

How does one get a sniper AND a clown car AND outnumber ost in squads by the time Pgrens hit the field?

1x T1 (160/10)
1x Clown car (190/15)
4x conscripts (240)

1310 manpower 25 fuel

-OR-

1x T1
1x Sniper
3x conscripts

1,240 manpower 10 fuel


VS
_________________________

1x MG
1x T1
2x Gren
1x BP1
1x Pgren

1260 manpower 50 fuel


In both cases you're looking at 5x mobile squads vs 4x mobile squads and a crew weapon. I was even charitable to your argument and went with full conscripts over a 2nd CE. Soviets will field their army faster unless OST is allowed all the fuel they want.

Are you guys just letting OST cap the whole map, and that's why you think they're OP?

Snip

You just did sniper OR clowncar. He said sniper AND clown car... That means in one build

If you actually read Serriths post you will find nothing close to him saying that ost is OP. Relax

You just did sniper OR clowncar. He said sniper AND clown car... That means in one build

If you actually read Serriths post you will find nothing close to him saying that ost is OP. Relax

His post was in response to my own where I stated snipers and clown cars are both counters. I don't understand why, but he interpreted that as meaning you have to build both, whereas my original intent was that one or the other can serve as counter.

I expanded on the concept to clarify what I meant since he interpreted it as a combo instead of an either or thing.

E: Consider if I had said instead : "well ostrupen are countered with t70, t34, t34-85, katyusha, IS2, KV-1, KV-2, KV-8, and ISU". Would you not consider it bizarre if someone had interpreted that as having to simultaneously build 9 different vehicles to counter one unit?

1x T1 (160/10)
1x Clown car (190/15)
4x conscripts (240)

1310 manpower 25 fuel

-OR-

1x T1
1x Sniper
3x conscripts

1,240 manpower 10 fuel


VS
_________________________

1x MG
1x T1
2x Gren
1x BP1
1x Pgren

1260 manpower 50 fuel


In both cases you're looking at 5x mobile squads vs 4x mobile squads and a crew weapon. I was even charitable to your argument and went with full conscripts over a 2nd CE. Soviets will field their army faster unless OST is allowed all the fuel they want.

Are you guys just letting OST cap the whole map, and that's why you think they're OP?

incorrect since the soviets have retarded sidetech costs
+150/15 mp/fuel
+200 for medics

for ost they cost
+150/60 mp/munitions for medics


youre also ignoring the fact that the soviets NEED to build T2 for the AT gun if they go T1...

thats another 160/15 to the pricetag....

incorrect since the soviets have retarded sidetech costs

I'm sorry is this thread about optional soviet sidetech costs that are already being addressed by the balance team or is it about Pgrens?

youre also ignoring the fact that the soviets NEED to build T2 for the AT gun if they go T1...

Guards, m-42, or trade conscripts for penals if you absolutely need some other doctrine. Please remember that OST vehicles and buildings aren't free if you're going to try and add costs to the soviets.

You admitted yourself that it won't prove anything. Of course that's after you modified the rules to make it a pointless endeavor.

So first you claim that clown car counters PGs and then you conveniently omit that OST have grens to support PGs that nullify any clown car's impact. Though I am pretty sure I can win against you even without grens. So we can still do 1v1 like you offered.

1x T1 (160/10)
1x Clown car (190/15)
4x conscripts (240)

1310 manpower 25 fuel

-OR-

1x T1
1x Sniper
3x conscripts

1,240 manpower 10 fuel


VS
_________________________

1x MG
1x T1
2x Gren
1x BP1
1x Pgren

1260 manpower 50 fuel

Show me one high level game (or any game at all) with such builds. I dare you. No one builds T1 with 4 conscripts except for level 1 4v4 masterminds. No one builds just 2 grens. No one builds just a sniper and 3 cons in 1v1.

well seeing how Soviet buildings are getting a cost reduction in v5 it seems any argument here is null and void

well seeing how Soviet buildings are getting a cost reduction in v5 it seems any argument here is null and void

We are discussing the present state of things.

T1 and T2 aren't getting anything though. We don't have the final notes yet and the patch isn't coming until December anyway Kappa

...

A more realistic(and actual meta build) would be:
1x Pio
2x Mg42
BP 1

For a total of 820mp/40 fuel.

Or maybe a common osttruppen build:
1x MG42
3x Osttruppen
BP 1

960mp and 40 fuel



So hypothetical:
T1
1x Sniper
2x Conscripts

1000mp 10fuel for the same number of squads as the first build but less than the second.
Or 3x conscripts for an extra squad to outnumber/match ost squad count, but your MP cost has jumped to 1240 vs ost with 820/960.

Or if we go clown car build:
T1
1x CE(for flamethrower and early capping)
Clown car
2x Conscripts

We end up with 1000mp and 25fuel, though we get the car as well.



I don't know why you would list an example of a gren build which are not supposed to feature pgrens, when the builds that actually rush pgrens don't utilize tier 1 at all.

Did you not know these were the typical pgren rush builds?




The exception I mentioned before was a build with Urban Defense I like to use:
4x CE
T2
In base forward retreat point(for reduced MP cost, and additional CP)

1040mp 30(?)fuel, don't recall exact fuel for FRP. You get tech, and healing and 5 squads-and hopefully you have gotten enough CP where you can grab shock troop or M-42 if needed. No conscripts means no munitions dumps which means upgraded CE flamethrower spam and the number of squads means rapid map control.

But I need to stress this is NOT a meta build and really relies on surprise and unfamiliarity from the opponent rather than being a truly viable build.

well seeing how Soviet buildings are getting a cost reduction in v5 it seems any argument here is null and void

there is no cost reduction... T3 is made cheaper in exchange for T4 having a price hike... overall costs remain the same....

m-42,

good but doctrinal

Guards,trade conscripts for penals

not a substitute for an AT gun

Please remember that OST vehicles and buildings aren't free if you're going to try and add costs to the soviets.

SOV teching costs even more than ost teching... adding buildings into the equation hurts your argument even further...