Will they address Panzergrens in the new patch?

Jump back to quoted post4 Jan 2021, 07:37 AMElaindil

You clearly don't play soviets against decent OST. By the time PGs come it's usually 1 engi 4 cons vs 1 pio, 3grens, MG + coming PG. What greater numbers are you talking about?

Jump back to quoted post4 Jan 2021, 17:01 PMporkloin

Even in your completely non-sequitur example OST has payed 40 more manpower for their less mobile on-field composition.

I want you to ask yourself what you're really trying to communicate in this thread, because the only reason I can think of for why someone would post a typical 3x gren build vs a 4x conscript build in response to a point about Pgrens is that what's actually going on is that you're personally struggling in your SOV vs OST match-up and just want a weaker OST because losing sucks.

Jump back to quoted post4 Jan 2021, 17:01 PMporkloin

Even in your completely non-sequitur example OST has payed 40 more manpower for their less mobile on-field composition.

I want you to ask yourself what you're really trying to communicate in this thread, because the only reason I can think of for why someone would post a typical 3x gren build vs a 4x conscript build in response to a point about Pgrens is that what's actually going on is that you're personally struggling in your SOV vs OST match-up and just want a weaker OST because losing sucks.

Jump back to quoted post4 Jan 2021, 17:35 PMelchino7

I don't see how Soviets get the T70 in a timely fashion nor how they outnumber OH with squads.

the fact that you mention the sniper and the clown car in a SOV vs OST matchup shows that you have no idea how to play the soviets... try commenting after youve played them mate...

Jump back to quoted post4 Jan 2021, 17:54 PMporkloin

In the original post I mentioned clown car as a counter to Pgrens, which it is.

Jump back to quoted post4 Jan 2021, 17:35 PMelchino7

I'll say it again, i don't think PG are as much of an issue. But in the comparison you guys are making with SU, i think it's a problem of how much mp inefficient is the tech, specially for the first 10 mins of the game.

Jump back to quoted post4 Jan 2021, 17:54 PMporkloin

Well you'd see how if you actually read the thread and realized that the original point is that SOVs will have more squads than OST will have Pgrens, because yknow, Pgrens are 340 manpower.

Instead you just mod a forum wherin people dishonestly shift their goal every post without any repercussions, and you encourage it by going along.

Look at this post:



What did this post communicate? On it's face all he's doing is quoting me, and then insulting the opinion, but if we look closer he's not quoting me. The board has a quote function ffs so why wouldn't he use it?

Oh. It's because he's misquoting me, and insulting his own strawman. In the original post I mentioned clown car as a counter to Pgrens, which it is. If you can force shreks with a clown car it's still a cost effective investment. Now OST has grens it's true, but grens were not the original context, pgrens were.

Effective mods delete this dishonest crap and punish users for lying, but instead 9/10s of the posts on this board seem to be logical fallacy par excellence.

Jump back to quoted post3 Jan 2021, 20:20 PMporkloin

SOV doesn't struggle against Pgrens primarily since they 1) have the sniper and clown car, and 2) can easily control the map through greater numbers. What they struggle with is Ostruppen nullifying the early map control advantage they ought to be owed vs a teching enemy.

Jump back to quoted post4 Jan 2021, 18:17 PMElaindil

When you put it like that it seems that adjusting soviet teching costs may be a solution to the problem of early PGs but then you have to think about OKW match-up and it all gets complicated again

Jump back to quoted post4 Jan 2021, 18:22 PMgbem

the solution is to adjust both OKW and SOV teching costs... SOV teching costs the most MP while OKW costs the most fuel... adjusting both then removing those pointless sidetechs for sov would make both factions alot better...

Jump back to quoted post4 Jan 2021, 18:23 PMElaindil

But then you have to account for OKW vs UKF and USF... This is a slippery slope and too big of a task.

Jump back to quoted post4 Jan 2021, 17:54 PMporkloin

snip

Jump back to quoted post3 Jan 2021, 20:20 PMporkloin

SOV doesn't struggle against Pgrens primarily since they 1) have the sniper and clown car, and 2) can easily control the map through greater numbers. What they struggle with is Ostruppen nullifying the early map control advantage they ought to be owed vs a teching enemy.

And I do think that PGs timing against SOV is just too strong (other allied factions are fine). That's why this topic was started. So it's very tricky to come up with an elegant solution to this.

And this is all about 1v1. In team modes this is a non-issue imo.

Jump back to quoted post3 Jan 2021, 21:02 PMporkloin

T-70 comes a few minutes afterwards and murders everything too!

It's as if the game is some complex dance with tempo and trading of initiative!

Pgrens are 340 manpower while conscripts and penals are 240 and 300 respectively. Pgrens also arrive later. SOV will always be able to build more infantry squads than OST can build Pgrens.

Jump back to quoted post4 Jan 2021, 18:17 PMElaindil

When you put it like that it seems that adjusting soviet teching costs may be a solution to the problem of early PGs but then you have to think about OKW match-up and it all gets complicated again

Jump back to quoted post4 Jan 2021, 17:35 PMelchino7

OH starts with +30mp and a +30mp more expensive unit (170mp CE vs 200mp Pio).
...

Jump back to quoted post4 Jan 2021, 18:27 PMelchino7

Point 1 implies a T1 opening which gives up map control in favour of shocking value units and the 2nd one implies a Conscript opening.

Either case they are not outnumbering OH with units.

SOV doesn't struggle against Pgrens primarily 1) have the sniper and clown car, and 2) can easily control the map through greater numbers

Jump back to quoted post4 Jan 2021, 18:37 PMVipper

Pioneer are not 30MP combat efficient that CE especially with latest buffs.

Jump back to quoted post4 Jan 2021, 18:40 PMporkloin

If anyone thinks that clown cars and snipers don't counter Pgrens feel free to 1v1 me. I'll play SOV with engies clown car and sniper. You can play OST with pios and Pgrens.

Jump back to quoted post4 Jan 2021, 18:40 PMporkloin

FFS it says right there "Pgrens primarily". At no point is t1 or anything other than Pgrens implied.

Can people just not own up to things?

SOV doesn't struggle against Pgrens primarily 1) have the sniper and clown car, and 2) can easily control the map through greater numbers

Jump back to quoted post4 Jan 2021, 18:43 PMElaindil

Did he imply that? He just stated a fact...

Jump back to quoted post4 Jan 2021, 18:49 PMgbem

you do know that sniper and clown car is in SOV T1 right?

Jump back to quoted post4 Jan 2021, 18:56 PMporkloin

Did you know that Pgrens, which are the topic of discussion, aren't in SOV T1?

Jump back to quoted post4 Jan 2021, 18:56 PMporkloin

Did you know that Pgrens, which are the topic of discussion, aren't in SOV T1?