Mines - Cost VS MP Bleed

Is placing multipurpose mines (typically 30 muni) worth placing on points for infantry to run into?

Is the MP bleed typically worth the 30 muni?

generally speaking yes, especially as soviet

Agreed with GiaA, they're usually worth it, but to go into some more detail:

Osttruppen are probably the only infantry where the munition to manpower ratio isn't directly worth it (16mp per model). That said, most Osttruppen builds include Panzergrenadiers that have juicy 34mp models, so it's worth the gamble. Also, even if an Osttruppen squad does hit a mine, it stands no chance against something like a Conscript squad anymore, so while the economic damage isn't great, it still weakens enemy field presence.

You should be looking at multipurpose mines differently depending on the faction you're playing. Soviets and UKF have the luxury to use mines as attritional tools to afflict manpower damage and slow your opponent down. The 7 men upgrade comes late for Conscripts and - while strong - doesn't have to be rushed and Brens aren't necessary for Sections to win fights (bolster is), so both these factions have lots of spare munitions in the early/mid game to spam mines. As USF and OKW, mines should be used in a more limited tactical way to secure flanks, bait vehicles, deny cover, etc. You don't want to place more mines than necessary, because you need BARs and STGs asap to keep your mainlines competitive (also med kits as OKW). The main Ostheer mines are already tactical in their nature.

Agreed with GiaA, they're usually worth it, but to go into some more detail:

Osttruppen are probably the only infantry where the munition to manpower ratio isn't directly worth it (16mp per model). That said, most Osttruppen builds include Panzergrenadiers that have juicy 34mp models, so it's worth the gamble. Also, even if an Osttruppen squad does hit a mine, it stands no chance against something like a Conscript squad anymore, so while the economic damage isn't great, it still weakens enemy field presence.

You should be looking at multipurpose mines differently depending on the faction you're playing. Soviets and UKF have the luxury to use mines as attritional tools to afflict manpower damage and slow your opponent down. The 7 men upgrade comes late for Conscripts and - while strong - doesn't have to be rushed and Brens aren't necessary for Sections to win fights (bolster is), so both these factions have lots of spare munitions in the early/mid game to spam mines. As USF and OKW, mines should be used in a more limited tactical way to secure flanks, bait vehicles, deny cover, etc. You don't want to place more mines than necessary, because you need BARs and STGs asap to keep your mainlines competitive (also med kits as OKW). The main Ostheer mines are already tactical in their nature.

I see. I don't why I never thought about it that way in terms of different factions and weapon upgrades. That makes a lot of logical sense. I do have to ask one thing thought about your response, why is it that bolster is necessary to win fights, but brens are not? Is there a good reason for this?

As you are mentioning OKW and med kits, I typically do go with mechanized. Is there any good reason to go medic truck? (probably differs between 1v1 and bigger team games I assume?)

By the way, thank you for all your responses. I see you have replied to my other posts as well. Much appreciated JibberJabberJobber.

I hope newer players who hopefully see these will benefit from your responses.

why is it that bolster is necessary to win fights, but brens are not? Is there a good reason for this?

Bolstered Sections are already really good without slot weapons, they'Il reliably beat STG Volks and LMG Grens at the right range, especially if you're making use of their sandbags and keep them healed up.

The Bren is also more of a sidegrade than an all-around upgrade. USF's BAR increases dps at all ranges and can fire on the move, OKW's STG increases dps at all ranges and can fire on the move, OST's LMG42 is stronger compared to a single Bren and Grenadiers need them to compete because they can't bolster like Sections.

You trade 45 munitions, a slight decrease in short range dps, one less weapon that can fire on the move and reduced mobility (LMGs take more timing reaiming) for a moderate increase in mid and far dps. Bolstered Bren Sections can be really strong, but it's not necessary to win infantry engagements nor always the best choice.

As you are mentioning OKW and med kits, I typically do go with mechanized. Is there any good reason to go medic truck? (probably differs between 1v1 and bigger team games I assume?)

Medic Truck saves you a lot of munitions you don't have to use for med crates, allowing you to get weapon upgrades earlier and place more mines. It also gives you the Flak Truck, UHU and LeiG which are all decent in their own right. It also costs a bit less fuel than Mechanized.

Mechanized gives the Puma - probably the best light vehicle in the game - which makes Mechanized worth it by itself. Stuka Rocket arty is very strong in team games as an 'easy' way to get wipes and displace team weapons, not so much in 1v1. Luchs is also good. If you're playing team games and your teammate happens to be Ostheer, I'd always go Mechanized while he makes a medic bunker for you.

Bolstered Sections are already really good without slot weapons, they'Il reliably beat STG Volks and LMG Grens at the right range, especially if you're making use of their sandbags and keep them healed up.

The Bren is also more of a sidegrade than an all-around upgrade. USF's BAR increases dps at all ranges and can fire on the move, OKW's STG increases dps at all ranges and can fire on the move, OST's LMG42 is stronger compared to a single Bren and Grenadiers need them to compete because they can't bolster like Sections.

You trade 45 munitions, a slight decrease in short range dps, one less weapon that can fire on the move and reduced mobility (LMGs take more timing reaiming) for a moderate increase in mid and far dps. Bolstered Bren Sections can be really strong, but it's not necessary to win infantry engagements nor always the best choice.



Medic Truck saves you a lot of munitions you don't have to use for med crates, allowing you to get weapon upgrades earlier and place more mines. It also gives you the Flak Truck, UHU and LeiG which are all decent in their own right. It also costs a bit less fuel than Mechanized.

Mechanized gives the Puma - probably the best light vehicle in the game - which makes Mechanized worth it by itself. Stuka Rocket arty is very strong in team games as an 'easy' way to get wipes and displace team weapons, not so much in 1v1. Luchs is also good. If you're playing team games and your teammate happens to be Ostheer, I'd always go Mechanized while he makes a medic bunker for you.

Damn, I am reading all your replies on the other posts I made. I feel like I have played this game a lot (especially 1v1s), yet I still did not figure out a lot of these things you said. You appear very knowledgeable about a ton of different concepts of the game.

I guess my final two questions for now are, how do you recommend a player continually improve their play? Are there any resources you highly recommend? For example, watching your own replays, spectating, watching commentated games online, streams, websites, tools, etc.

Damn, I am reading all your replies on the other posts I made. I feel like I have played this game a lot (especially 1v1s), yet I still did not figure out a lot of these things you said. You appear very knowledgeable about a ton of different concepts of the game.

I guess my final two questions for now are, how do you recommend a player continually improve their play? Are there any resources you highly recommend? For example, watching your own replays, spectating, watching commentated games online, streams, websites, tools, etc.

Ohh you've opened pandoras box now

1. Theoretical knowledge (no need for exact stats but exavtly the kind of info youre inquiring about), good basis for improvement but only a minor paet of being good at the game

2. Intuition (what feels right to you ingame needs to actually be the right thing to do), by far the biggest part of being good at the game, can only be improved by practicing, coh2 is extremely reactive so situations almost never repeat, thats why you need to be able to analyze a given situation and react accordingly on the spot with very limited time, theres no concious decision making process most of the time so you can't improve this by watching replays

3. Mechanical execution

Goes hand in hand with 2. Use as many hptkeys as possible (use autohotkey if needed), use tactical map, ideally use control groups (but not too many)

To answer your question: you get good by practicing for the most part, but you also wanna mix in some reflection about the way you're playing (watching replays of your own or others, watching streams, learning about stats, thinking about and memorizing build orders etc.)

Ohh you've opened pandoras box now

1. Theoretical knowledge (no need for exact stats but exavtly the kind of info youre inquiring about), good basis for improvement but only a minor paet of being good at the game

2. Intuition (what feels right to you ingame needs to actually be the right thing to do), by far the biggest part of being good at the game, can only be improved by practicing, coh2 is extremely reactive so situations almost never repeat, thats why you need to be able to analyze a given situation and react accordingly on the spot with very limited time, theres no concious decision making process most of the time so you can't improve this by watching replays

3. Mechanical execution

Goes hand in hand with 2. Use as many hptkeys as possible (use autohotkey if needed), use tactical map, ideally use control groups (but not too many)

To answer your question: you get good by practicing for the most part, but you also wanna mix in some reflection about the way you're playing (watching replays of your own or others, watching streams, learning about stats, thinking about and memorizing build orders etc.)

I use the tactical map, watch streams, I used to memorize build orders (now more flexible and adapting to what my opponent builds), but control groups? I have barely ever used control groups in all the times I played CoH2. Any tips for making effective use of this? Also, I know you can use tab to cycle through selected units, but does anyone actually use this? I barely do. I will say, I do not take the time to reflect too much. That is probably one of my biggest problems in trying to improve at this game. Thank you for such a good response.

I use the tactical map, watch streams, I used to memorize build orders (now more flexible and adapting to what my opponent builds), but control groups? I have barely ever used control groups in all the times I played CoH2. Any tips for making effective use of this? Also, I know you can use tab to cycle through selected units, but does anyone actually use this? I barely do. I will say, I do not take the time to reflect too much. That is probably one of my biggest problems in trying to improve at this game. Thank you for such a good response.

This is just my personal take on control groups. I use them for the key units in each game stage. For example when playing Wehr I will assign my MG to "2" early on. If I play a sniper it's "1" throughout the entire game. My Paks are always on "3". Once I get my first light vehicle the MG gets overwritten and the Vehicle becomes "2". Indirect Fire is on "4". Engineers are on "5" just to make selecting them for repairs late gmae less annoying. Once again I don't really feel qualified to comment on what the best use of ctrl groups is but I'm fairly certain they should be used in some way or another.

I use tab extensively. Imagine having two rifles selected and you suspect theres an mg in front of them in the FOW. Now you press tab once and right click to one side of teh suspected MG posistion and tab again and right click to the other side of it. That's just one example of its applications. Basically it allows you to jsut select a blob of units send it out of base as a whole and then rifle through them and give them precise orders while they're exiting. This can be done very smoothly and efficiently.

Btw can you link your stat page? It'd be interesting to see how many games you've played. As I said 90% of imrpovement is done by practicing. There's really no magic to it. Ofc not everyone who plays a lot becomes good but everyone who becomes good has played a lot.

This is just my personal take on control groups. I use them for the key units in each game stage. For example when playing Wehr I will assign my MG to "2" early on. If I play a sniper it's "1" throughout the entire game. My Paks are always on "3". Once I get my first light vehicle the MG gets overwritten and the Vehicle becomes "2". Indirect Fire is on "4". Engineers are on "5" just to make selecting them for repairs late gmae less annoying. Once again I don't really feel qualified to comment on what the best use of ctrl groups is but I'm fairly certain they should be used in some way or another.

I use tab extensively. Imagine having two rifles selected and you suspect theres an mg in front of them in the FOW. Now you press tab once and right click to one side of teh suspected MG posistion and tab again and right click to the other side of it. That's just one example of its applications. Basically it allows you to jsut select a blob of units send it out of base as a whole and then rifle through them and give them precise orders while they're exiting. This can be done very smoothly and efficiently.

Btw can you link your stat page? It'd be interesting to see how many games you've played. As I said 90% of imrpovement is done by practicing. There's really no magic to it. Ofc not everyone who plays a lot becomes good but everyone who becomes good has played a lot.

Yeah

https://www.coh2.org/ladders/playercard/steamid/76561198035703937