The maxim thread

It got glossed over so I'd like to resubmit for discussion the idea of longer range for the maxim. This puts it further away from the fight meaning further from harm and outside a flank less Likley to get deathlooped. It also gives it more time to suppress enemies assuming it's spotted for. Dial down the arc so it's not OP as hell of course. Kinda keeps it unique and also let's it be an "assault mg" by allowing it to be o fire on enemies without taking fire itself

this may be an interesting change... it would mean that the maxim essentially functions as an anti machinegun machinegun... maybe we can go a step further and lower its setup time significantly then remove its suppression allowing it to work as a true DPS machinegun?

deathloop , yes that's correct you wern't immagining it DEATHLOOP . DEATHLOOP Yes DEATHLOOP . You are lucky to get any suppression or ark at all with DEATHLOOP. Did I mention maxim has DEATHLOOP?


also you have a long history of being biased soo your opinion is trash just like achpawel`s

You realize all HMG's have that issue right?

You realize all HMG's have that issue right?

You realize that both axis HMGs just teleport to another entity when one packing it or running with it is killed when you retreat, therefore NO DEATHLOOP?

this may be an interesting change... it would mean that the maxim essentially functions as an anti machinegun machinegun... maybe we can go a step further and lower its setup time significantly then remove its suppression allowing it to work as a true DPS machinegun?

It already kinda functions like an anti mg mg since it doesn't stop firing if suppressed.

I don't like the idea of completely removing its suppression as it leaves the soviet completely without a suppression platform aside from the M5. As bad as the maxim is at least it's mp only and once in a while itll suppress a squad assuming it isn't walking right at it.

You realize all HMG's have that issue right?

no... only the maxim 50 cal and DSHK suffer from the deathloop... and the maxim suffers the worst from it

Unfortunate. I know you can't get "new" animations into the game, but I was hoping you might have the ability to skip existing ones.

Its not possible to then, say, force a unit attempting to shoot at the gunner to instead fire at a crewman, even if they're out of range? Or, and this will sound very silly, have the gunner siphon HP from other crewmen when he's damaged? Sorry if these "solutions" sound a little ludicrous, I'm really not sure what's possible for the modding team.

Failing all that, two models being in front of the gunner i suppose would be the only solution? It's not exactly ideal, but anything is better than what's currently the case.

A good rule of thumb, is that anything that mimics abilities or behaviours which are already in the game is possible in theory unless state otherwise.

I don't think we have any kind of siphon ability nor that it would look well or be approved at all. Imagine using a sniper, hitting the gunner and suddenly another random model drops down. Same with say indirect fire.

A good rule of thumb, is that anything that mimics abilities or behaviours which are already in the game is possible in theory unless state otherwise.

I don't think we have any kind of siphon ability nor that it would look well or be approved at all. Imagine using a sniper, hitting the gunner and suddenly another random model drops down. Same with say indirect fire.

Crazy idea here.... Could the maxim with its fancy gun shield provide green cover?
That would give it a damage reduction which might be enough to help reduce the loop. Knock off a model then to compensate.

A good rule of thumb, is that anything that mimics abilities or behaviours which are already in the game is possible in theory unless state otherwise.

I don't think we have any kind of siphon ability nor that it would look well or be approved at all. Imagine using a sniper, hitting the gunner and suddenly another random model drops down. Same with say indirect fire.

Well, it'd just be a case of healing the gunner while damaging a nearby model, really. "Siphoning" is really just an attempt to describe it. Functionality for both healing and damaging are in game already, it's just whether health can be used as a "resource" in this fashion.

Neither Snipers nor indirect/explosive fire would need to be affected by this, were it possible. Merely infantry small arms, given that they're the cause of most of the "deathloop" concerns anyway.

Neither suggestion are admittedly all that elegant or visually pleasing, but at the end of the day I'd accept a minor visual incongruity like this over the Maxim/DShK remaining in their current unfortunate state. Better solutions would be preferred.

Though I'd have thought that "Forcing" an unit to fire at another member of the squad than the gunner (Even if out of range) might be possible.

I feel as though the Maxim's suppression is a little understated. It does generally suppress in approximately one burst, assuming a generic squad with no "anti-suppression" factors in play. Not as quickly as the MG42, of course, but it's hardly as night and day as people seem to make out.

I don't think making it out to be weaker than it is in the suppression department is really all that useful. Its primary issue is the deathloop, which exacerbates suppression problems.

According to Stein Grenadier's information https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1H5z6szCfhmAAnDprmgwLzc-viZg4HPhKZshNLErvnck/edit#gid=0 it also has a better suppression "Radius" and "Radius percent" than other HMGs... Though I'm not precisely sure what these numbers translate to. I assume suppression for squads surrounding the one thats being fired upon.

So the Maxim deals 0.0065 suppression per bullet which is 3.25% the required amount to suppress a unit on grey cover. It has a rate of fire of 7.2 rounds per second at long range which means it will suppress a squad after about 4.3 seconds. The maxim has a long range burst length of 4.5 seconds which means that really under only perfect conditions will the maxim be able to suppress a squad at long range in one burst.

The MG42 deals 0.012 suppression per bullet which is 6% the required amount to suppress a unit on grey cover. It has a rate of fire of 14.4 rounds per second at long range which means it will suppress a squad after roughly 1.15 seconds. Burst duration is only 1.63 at long range compared to the maxim at 4.5, but it doesn't matter since it suppresses a squad in 1/4 the time.


As an extra, the vickers under the same conditions should take roughly 1.725 seconds to suppress at the same range. This is assuming the vickers does not outright kill the model its shooting at though, because if it does(which happens semi frequently) the MG will cease firing and attempt to acquire a new target model which obviously cuts the suppression speed.

Obviously this is all just assuming controlled conditions at max range with the enemy squad in neutral grey cover, but it should demonstrate how much better the MG42 (or even vickers) is compared to the maxim. It's not just a little worse, the maxim is just plain bad in terms of suppression.

So the Maxim deals 0.0065 suppression per bullet which is 3.25% the required amount to suppress a unit on grey cover. It has a rate of fire of 7.2 rounds per second at long range which means it will suppress a squad after about 4.3 seconds. The maxim has a long range burst length of 4.5 seconds which means that really under only perfect conditions will the maxim be able to suppress a squad at long range in one burst.

The MG42 deals 0.012 suppression per bullet which is 6% the required amount to suppress a unit on grey cover. It has a rate of fire of 14.4 rounds per second at long range which means it will suppress a squad after roughly 1.15 seconds. Burst duration is only 1.63 at long range compared to the maxim at 4.5, but it doesn't matter since it suppresses a squad in 1/4 the time.


As an extra, the vickers under the same conditions should take roughly 1.725 seconds to suppress at the same range. This is assuming the vickers does not outright kill the model its shooting at though, because if it does(which happens semi frequently) the MG will cease firing and attempt to acquire a new target model which obviously cuts the suppression speed.

Obviously this is all just assuming controlled conditions at max range with the enemy squad in neutral grey cover, but it should demonstrate how much better the MG42 (or even vickers) is compared to the maxim. It's not just a little worse, the maxim is just plain bad in terms of suppression.

From some cursory testing I did in cheatmod, it doesn't seem to work out quite like this in practice, though. I don't know if there's something else going on with the numbers, or if there was something wrong with my methodology of "Put conscript squad at max range of MG and switch MG to 'enemy'"

It generally took just over a second for the MG42 to suppress the squad, but the Maxim only took 2-2.5~ seconds every time i tested it. Suppressed within a single burst every time, with a reasonable amount of the burst to go.

The main thing noticable was that the maxim takes significantly longer to pin, suppression certainly didnt seem to take four and a half seconds, however.

Clarifications: MG was replaced with a fresh MG every test, as was the conscript squad, to avoid issues with lingering suppression, or the MG being mid-burst.


I'd urge others to do a more thorough examination, perhaps I made a mistake somewhere, but it really doesn't feel as though the Maxim takes the amount of time it's "meant to" to suppress.

From some cursory testing I did in cheatmod, it doesn't seem to work out quite like this in practice, though. I don't know if there's something else going on with the numbers, or if there was something wrong with my methodology of "Put conscript squad at max range of MG and switch MG to 'enemy'"

It generally took just over a second for the MG42 to suppress the squad, but the Maxim only took 2-2.5~ seconds every time i tested it. Suppressed within a single burst every time, with a reasonable amount of the burst to go.

The main thing noticable was that the maxim takes significantly longer to pin, suppression certainly didnt seem to take four and a half seconds, however.

Clarifications: MG was replaced with a fresh MG every test, as was the conscript squad, to avoid issues with lingering suppression, or the MG being mid-burst.


I'd urge others to do a more thorough examination, perhaps I made a mistake somewhere, but it really doesn't feel as though the Maxim takes the amount of time it's "meant to" to suppress.

I recall squad size effecting being supressed. The bigger the squad the faster it gets suppressed. You used the maxim on a conscript squad right? Thats the reason why it the maxim supressed faster then expected imo.

Although Maxim has some issues imo things are not as bad as described once the unit gains veterancy.

With the sustain fire and 20 suppression at vet 2 I have seen maxims to perform adequately.

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True, the 6 man squads definitely help with rifle grenades. The Rifles grenades comment was less about it being about 4 v 6 man and more about the rifle grenade just being annoying no matter what.

It really does suck that the deathloop bug is unfixable. However I dont think making it so enemy squads focus the non gunner models is a good idea. However maybe a fix that when on retreat the models bunch a little closer together? The most egregious examples of deathloops I can remember is when the non gunner models retreat way ahead of the gunner and when the gunner dies a model has to run all the way back to pick up the maxim. If the models were closer together during retreat non gunner models can soak some fire and they will be able to pick up the maxim faster if the gunner dies. I'm not sure if this is possible though.

Although Maxim has some issues imo things are not as bad as described once the unit gains veterancy.

With the sustain fire and 20 suppression at vet 2 I have seen maxims to perform adequately.

That is true however needing vet and a vet ability to do its actual job adequatly is not right. It doesnt have dual role or a low enough price to justify this.

If grens costed 280mp and still required tech 1 to be trained and being as they are currently and requiering vet and tech to come close preformance wise to unupgraded rifles there would be no doubt it would be seen as grens being up and cost to much for what they do.

Because of maxim spam trauma's wich people cant seem to let go off we get unrealistic fears that any and i mean any buff will result in the return of maxim spam. People need to stop doing this. Maxim is hardly build right now, in 1v1 its more of a hinderance then help because it has trouble not getting naded frontaly if a squad commits to it.

Although Maxim has some issues imo things are not as bad as described once the unit gains veterancy.

With the sustain fire and 20 suppression at vet 2 I have seen maxims to perform adequately.

So you're saying that your suggestion to fix maxim is to have it being built with vet2?

So you're saying that your suggestion to fix maxim is to have it being built with vet2?

I am saying what I have been always saying to you stop imagining things and focus only on what has actually been posted.

I am saying what I have been always saying to you stop imagining things and focus only on what has actually been posted.

So you're saying maxim is shit at vet0 and are perfectly fine that it needs vet2 to even start working like every other hmg at vet0, despite being most expensive one?

So you're saying maxim is shit at vet0 and are perfectly fine that it needs vet2 to even start working like every other hmg at vet0,

Sorry but I do not have the time to respond in all of your questions because of your difficultly comprehending a two sentence text.

Since you seem to have trouble reading and understating texts, I suggest you get some assistant in real life from a real person. Talking with real people might also help you improve your peoples skills that are lacking to say the least.

despite being most expensive one?

You might also need some help with maths since you have trouble finding out which number is the highest. I will help this once and provide with hmg price top most expensive to cheapest.

Dshk38 300
M2HB .50 cal Machine Gun Team 280
Vickers HMG 260
MG42 Heavy Machinegun Team 260
M1919 Maxim Machinegun 260
MG34 Heavy Machine Gun 250

Now as you can see 300>280>260>250

So what you're saying is, you are perfectly content with Maxim being frontally counterable by whatever can throw nades until vet2?

Although Maxim has some issues imo things are not as bad as described once the unit gains veterancy.

With the sustain fire and 20 suppression at vet 2 I have seen maxims to perform adequately.

terrible argument... units should be balanced from vet 0 on the get go... and if thats the case then the maxim`s vet 2 stats most likely needs to be brought to vet 0 plus a few extra


also sustained fire is a joke compared to API... the latter doubles DPS and allows it to take on armor while sustained fire allows a maxim to do the job of an MG42 without API....