Zis Barrage need longer cooldown

The ZiS is already quite expensive and increasing the price of an to even above elite infantry cost ATG is a bad idea. If you lose your first ATG then this would be insta game because you cannot afford to replace it anymore.
Every faction needs at least somewhat feasible non-vehicle access to AT weaponry.

Right now, for the price of an AT gun, you get a very good AI platform + an AT Gun + 6men squad very durable team weapon.

I suggest making the ZiS Barrage a 75MU purchasable upgrade.

Right now, for the price of an AT gun, you get a very good AI platform + an AT Gun + 6men squad very durable team weapon.

I suggest making the ZiS Barrage a 75MU purchasable upgrade.

that does nothing to help... the ZIS barrage is oppressive mostly in the lategame when you get two of them and simply eliminate all weapon teams without the use of rocket arty... nerfing the popcap is better at stopping that imo...

that does nothing to help... the ZIS barrage is oppressive mostly in the lategame when you get two of them and simply eliminate all weapon teams without the use of rocket arty... nerfing the popcap is better at stopping that imo...

It helps in the way that it is more rewarding for axis to kill one.
Killing an upgraded 6men ZiS make sovs losing 75MU.

It helps in the way that it is more rewarding for axis to kill one.
Killing an upgraded 6men ZiS make sovs losing 75MU.

it does nothing to solve the problem behind the zis... 1 zis isnt too oppressive... the real problem starts when double zis comes out and it becomes impossible to do stuff without eating barrage after barrage in the lategame...

I just think should be more scatter. I don't see how cooldown is a problem.

Making something more random isnt really a good way to balance it.

id prefer not to see double zis at all in 1v1/2v2... that is a major pain to deal with especially as OST...

Let me guess, you never build mortars.

Let me guess, you never build mortars.

Utilizing indirect fire is a lv17+ skill. Don’t ask too much of them please.

It helps in the way that it is more rewarding for axis to kill one.
Killing an upgraded 6men ZiS make sovs losing 75MU.

And the barrage is free and unlimited thereafter right?

Let me guess, you never build mortars.

Mortars are terrible vs the zis... the zis can actually kill a mortar pretty easily... the most reliable zis counter remains the stuka zu fuss with the pwerfer and brummbar barrage trailing it...leigs are half decent aswell...

Still double zis is still pretty cancer to both use and face... and id prefer not to see it anytime soon

Mortars are terrible vs the zis... the zis can actually kill a mortar pretty easily... the most reliable zis counter remains the stuka zu fuss with the pwerfer and brummbar barrage trailing it...leigs are half decent aswell...

Still double zis is still pretty cancer to both use and face... and id prefer not to see it anytime soon

BOIIIIIIIIIIII you fail at using mortars HARD then.

BOIIIIIIIIIIII you fail at using mortars HARD then.

I can counter anyone using mortars against the zis... and so far ive had 0 cases of my own zis getting decrewed by mortars... in fact the opposite tends to happen... ive blasted plenty of mortars with a zis...

Ive had the leig decrew a zis though but only when the opponent uses the hacktruck

Mortars are terrible vs the zis... the zis can actually kill a mortar pretty easily... the most reliable zis counter remains the stuka zu fuss with the pwerfer and brummbar barrage trailing it...leigs are half decent aswell...

Still double zis is still pretty cancer to both use and face... and id prefer not to see it anytime soon

but the mortar can hide behind blockers. do you... do you try to kill the zis using the mortars small arms? that would explain the trouble you are having...

also if its not on the front its countered. all health damage to a zis matters because outside doctrines soviet wont heal on the field and has to walk all the way home...

but the mortar can hide behind blockers. do you... do you try to kill the zis using the mortars small arms? that would explain the trouble you are having...

You wont be able to hide behind blockers in most situations... and if i see someome who does i just move the zis..

also if its not on the front its countered. all health damage to a zis matters because outside doctrines soviet wont heal on the field and has to walk all the way home...

That is true... still double zis is a major pain to face more than any other double at gun combo so far (except the old creeping rakaten)... it could use a small price hike

zis barrage dont make sense

is the su76 barrage the same too?

because the barrage reloads TOO fast and with less scatter.

as ost weapon teams, you cant even pack up fast enough, you either lose half the team or get wiped. 2-3 zis rounds will hit you from afar.

almost same crap as pak howie.

You wont be able to hide behind blockers in most situations... and if i see someome who does i just move the zis..

Unless you're playing on one of these "empty open field" maps, there ALWAYS is somewhere to hide behind los/shot blockers on every singular map for 1v1 and 2v2 in ranked play.

And if that fails you, zis has 60 range, mortar has 80, failing to counter it this way is the same as failing to counter KV-2 with JT.

That is true... still double zis is a major pain to face more than any other double at gun combo so far (except the old creeping rakaten)... it could use a small price hike

Doublte ATG is completely standard play from all 5 factions and barrage isn't spammed as soon as its off CD, like you and others make it sound.

And no, it could not use a small price hike, because there is nothing wrong with it.
You and others are bitching for the sake of bitching, because you've ran out of units to cry about thanks to community balance modders it seems.

zis barrage dont make sense

is the su76 barrage the same too?

Yes, but shoots 6 shells instead of 4.

because the barrage reloads TOO fast and with less scatter.

Muni is not infinite, scatter is IDENTICAL.

as ost weapon teams, you cant even pack up fast enough, you either lose half the team or get wiped. 2-3 zis rounds will hit you from afar.

Stop parking weapon teams within 30 range of ZiS guns.
And if if more then half barrage hits then
1) extremely lucky RNG
2) time to learn to play and work on awareness and reaction timne, because you have none if you just sit there and eat barrage weapons whole payload instead of moving after HEARING initial shot.

almost same crap as pak howie.

No.

Interestingly enough the barrage of zis gun as an ability has a range 60 while the barrage of SU-76 80

Unless you're playing on one of these "empty open field" maps, there ALWAYS is somewhere to hide behind los/shot blockers on every singular map for 1v1 and 2v2 in ranked play.

what i meant is its not always possible to hide behind blockers... especially since its easy to just move out of the way when you hear the mortar shot and deploy your zis elsewhere... as i said ive never had mortar problems with the zis... the stuka zu fuss/panzerwerfer/brummbar barrage even a LEIG is a far more pressing concern then a mortar...

And if that fails you, zis has 60 range, mortar has 80, failing to counter it this way is the same as failing to counter KV-2 with JT.

the zis has 80 range afaik... they shoot at the same range as the mortar

Doublte ATG is completely standard play from all 5 factions and barrage isn't spammed as soon as its off CD, like you and others make it sound.

im not entirely sure of this... i dont see double ATG from anyone outside of OKW and SOV...

what i meant is its not always possible to hide behind blockers... especially since its easy to just move out of the way when you hear the mortar shot and deploy your zis elsewhere... as i said ive never had mortar problems with the zis... the stuka zu fuss/panzerwerfer/brummbar barrage even a LEIG is a far more pressing concern then a mortar...

When you're making a weapon team move, CONGRATS, YOU HAVE COUNTERED IT, because it can no longer remain in place it did, zoning you out!
Stop camping next 30 minutes in the same place and MOVE OUT.

the zis has 80 range afaik... they shoot at the same range as the mortar

Ok, I give you that, but if you're shooting it at that range, contrary to mortar, you aren't going to hit shit.
And again, there ALWAYS is place to hide behind. You just don't have an excuse here.

im not entirely sure of this... i dont see double ATG from anyone outside of OKW and SOV...

Which game mode?

im not entirely sure of this... i dont see double ATG from anyone outside of OKW and SOV...

Double AT gun builds are quite common. It might be a little more common with Soviets, but this has more to do with the Soviets lack of hand held AT. Wehr/US/Brits have good hand held AT so you will more often see something like a PAK40 SchrekPgren combo.