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Panther time to fire is slow need a vet buff

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Spoof
14 Oct 2020, 02:08 AM
#81
avatar of Spoof

Posts: 449

jump backJump back to quoted post14 Oct 2020, 02:02 AMSkysTheLimit

In my opinion they're less effective than they should be because of engine snares.

That is also true. I would like to see snares do much more damage but only cause engine damage at either 33% or 50% health, but that's too big a change to happen in this game. Maybe in a future CoH if one ever comes out. But in order for mediums to stand a chance against heavy tanks I feel like side armor is also necessary to allow for flanking of armor. It's almost impossible to flank a non-casemate tank in the current game simply because there's really nothing to flank.
Playercard
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SkysTheLimit
14 Oct 2020, 02:17 AM
#82
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jump backJump back to quoted post14 Oct 2020, 02:08 AMSpoof

But in order for mediums to stand a chance against heavy tanks I feel like side armor is also necessary to allow for flanking of armor.

Yeah I agree completely. Side armor really needs to have it's own value in the next game. I hope mediums get a better treatment in the next game all around
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C3 TOOTH
14 Oct 2020, 08:22 AM
#83
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For me snare from mainline infantry totally destroy the Light vehicle play, where a small mistake, or a surprise flanking from infantry snare will cause the lost of Light. Lead to early defeat.

I prefer to have mainline infantry snare removed in the next game (or may be they're just a soft counter to vehicle for mainline infantry). Only mines should cause engine damage to vehicles (West armies used to be rare in snare play).
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Mr Carmine
14 Oct 2020, 13:22 PM
#84
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Posts: 1289

jump backJump back to quoted post14 Oct 2020, 08:22 AMC3 TOOTH
For me snare from mainline infantry totally destroy the Light vehicle play, where a small mistake, or a surprise flanking from infantry snare will cause the lost of Light. Lead to early defeat.

I prefer to have mainline infantry snare removed in the next game (or may be they're just a soft counter to vehicle for mainline infantry). Only mines should cause engine damage to vehicles (West armies used to be rare in snare play).


We can still adjust snaring in this game if there will be another patch. The snare threshhold could be put at lower health then now.
I qould welcome that chance, its worth testing imo.
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Vipper
14 Oct 2020, 13:38 PM
#85
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Snare are there to protect from tank running around crushing infatry.
:)
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Spoof
14 Oct 2020, 15:09 PM
#86
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Posts: 449

jump backJump back to quoted post14 Oct 2020, 08:22 AMC3 TOOTH
For me snare from mainline infantry totally destroy the Light vehicle play, where a small mistake, or a surprise flanking from infantry snare will cause the lost of Light. Lead to early defeat.

I prefer to have mainline infantry snare removed in the next game (or may be they're just a soft counter to vehicle for mainline infantry). Only mines should cause engine damage to vehicles (West armies used to be rare in snare play).


Light vehicles are generally extremely oppressive when used correctly or underwhelming when used wrong. I think snares are still necessary to soft counter LVs, but only if you have another AT unit to deal the necessary damage first. The best that could happen probably is increasing snare damage but also increasing snare threshold, allowing for one hit snares of the earliest vehicles but requiring more for later vehicles.
Playercard
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SkysTheLimit
14 Oct 2020, 16:31 PM
#87
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jump backJump back to quoted post14 Oct 2020, 13:38 PMVipper
Snare are there to protect from tank running around crushing infatry.

Don't agree on that at all. Not only are there plenty of other ways to prevent crushing, but it doesn't really address the point either

You could still have snares prevent crushing without them causing full engine damage. They could be cheaper and cause a temporary effect

And crushing shouldn't be nonexistent. It shouldnt be a first choice either, but there's no reason it shouldn't be possible for a tank to punish you if you choose to stand right in front of it
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Vipper
14 Oct 2020, 17:01 PM
#88
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jump backJump back to quoted post14 Oct 2020, 16:31 PMSkysTheLimit

Don't agree on that at all. Not only are there plenty of other ways to prevent crushing, but it doesn't really address the point either

You could still have snares prevent crushing without them causing full engine damage. They could be cheaper and cause a temporary effect

And crushing shouldn't be nonexistent. It shouldnt be a first choice either, but there's no reason it shouldn't be possible for a tank to punish you if you choose to stand right in front of it

I am simply explaining why COH2 moved to giving snares to infatry. They simply learned from the problems of COH1.

There are alternatives but the game would be in worse state if one simply removed them.
:)
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SkysTheLimit
14 Oct 2020, 17:19 PM
#89
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jump backJump back to quoted post14 Oct 2020, 17:01 PMVipper

There are alternatives but the game would be in worse state if one simply removed them.


I don't think anyone disagrees there. All of the suggestions have been about changing them not removing

My original point was that they are either too powerful or too common. Their mere existence is not the issue

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Serrith
14 Oct 2020, 20:32 PM
#90
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jump backJump back to quoted post14 Oct 2020, 17:01 PMVipper

I am simply explaining why COH2 moved to giving snares to infatry. They simply learned from the problems of COH1.



I am not convinced that the sole or even primary reason infantry recieved snares is because crushing was too easy/common.
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Vipper
14 Oct 2020, 20:40 PM
#91
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jump backJump back to quoted post14 Oct 2020, 20:32 PMSerrith


I am not convinced that the sole or even primary reason infantry recieved snares is because crushing was too easy/common.

have you played Coh1?
:)
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Serrith
14 Oct 2020, 21:53 PM
#92
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jump backJump back to quoted post14 Oct 2020, 20:40 PMVipper

have you played Coh1?


Yes.
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Vipper
14 Oct 2020, 21:59 PM
#93
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jump backJump back to quoted post14 Oct 2020, 21:53 PMSerrith


Yes.

do you remember how one could push AT infatry to prevent them from fire and then crush them?

I am rather happy that this is not available in Coh2.
:)
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Serrith
14 Oct 2020, 23:17 PM
#94
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jump backJump back to quoted post14 Oct 2020, 21:59 PMVipper

do you remember how one could push AT infatry to prevent them from fire and then crush them?

I am rather happy that this is not available in Coh2.


I agree that it was a prolific aspect to CoH 1, I am not convinced that snares were added exclusively-or even near exclusively-to address this issue.
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thekingsown10
17 Oct 2020, 20:59 PM
#95
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Posts: 232

jump backJump back to quoted post11 Oct 2020, 19:40 PMKatitof
Panther reload and reload vet is completely in line with any other TD.


Panther IS NOT A TANK DESTROYER stop calling it that . It's a CHASER tank ... It's role, (if you can even call it that) is to CHASE other tanks down with no moving accuracy bonus. That is the problem with the Panther and has been the problem with Panther since forever.
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Katitof
17 Oct 2020, 21:19 PM
#96
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jump backJump back to quoted post17 Oct 2020, 20:59 PMthekingsown10


Panther IS NOT A TANK DESTROYER stop calling it that . It's a CHASER tank ... It's role, (if you can even call it that) is to CHASE other tanks down with no moving accuracy bonus. That is the problem with the Panther and has been the problem with Panther since forever.

Cut the bullshit with semantics, I'm not vipper and I'm not going to get dragged into that.

Panther funcionality in game is TD.
It does not do it by outranging tanks, but outlasting them.

Anything above that is symptom of mental disorder.
jump backJump back to quoted post25 Nov 2015, 11:09 AM$nuffy
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
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Vipper
17 Oct 2020, 21:26 PM
#97
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jump backJump back to quoted post17 Oct 2020, 21:19 PMKatitof

Cut the bullshit with semantics, I'm not vipper and I'm not going to get dragged into that.

Panther funcionality in game is TD.
It does not do it by outranging tanks, but outlasting them.

Anything above that is symptom of mental disorder.

Pls stop trying to drag me into your silly arguments.

And for your information, you are the one arguing semantics continuously simply because you nothing useful to offer, so its insult and semantics non stop.
:)
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thedarkarmadillo
17 Oct 2020, 21:31 PM
#98
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Posts: 5279

jump backJump back to quoted post17 Oct 2020, 20:59 PMthekingsown10


Panther IS NOT A TANK DESTROYER stop calling it that . It's a CHASER tank ... It's role, (if you can even call it that) is to CHASE other tanks down with no moving accuracy bonus. That is the problem with the Panther and has been the problem with Panther since forever.

so its a chaser tank, not a tank destroyer and the issue is that its got silly tank destroyer gun stats and not chaser tank gun stats... i think even you might be able to figure this one out with a bit of time and a white board.
#stalinwept
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Support Sapper
18 Oct 2020, 01:59 AM
#99
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Posts: 1220 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post17 Oct 2020, 20:59 PMthekingsown10


Panther IS NOT A TANK DESTROYER stop calling it that . It's a CHASER tank ... It's role, (if you can even call it that) is to CHASE other tanks down with no moving accuracy bonus. That is the problem with the Panther and has been the problem with Panther since forever.


Event if panther is not a TD like you said, it's time to fire is in line if not better than other premium med, so whatever category you put it in, it is in line.
My mod with a bunch of new stuffs

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thekingsown10
18 Oct 2020, 02:03 AM
#100
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Posts: 232

jump backJump back to quoted post17 Oct 2020, 21:19 PMKatitof

Cut the bullshit with semantics, I'm not vipper and I'm not going to get dragged into that.

Panther funcionality in game is TD.
It does not do it by outranging tanks, but outlasting them.

Anything above that is symptom of mental disorder.


What a load of utter rubbish . No IT IS NOT A TANK DESTOYER. A tank destroyers role is to be at the back line taking long range shots at the enemy. That is it's primary purpose. Does the Panther do that? NO Does it have the range of a TD? NO, Does it at least have good vision? NO, so is flat out not a tank destroyer.

The only thing the panther has is HP and Speed. IT IS A CHASER TANK ... with no moving accuracy bonus. Don't give me that crap about outlasting .. is the IS2 a tank destroyer as well ? Is a Tiger a tank destroyer ? They can both outlast them... Any fool can see the Panther is not a TD so stop calling it one.
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