Why Soviets are OP

Imagine wanting to nerf the su85 so that the POS su76 is built more. Imagine going through 50 pages of the wildest mental gymnastics imaginable to justify not buffing the su76 to competence.

Imagine wanting to nerf the su85 so that the POS su76 is built more. Imagine going through 50 pages of the wildest mental gymnastics imaginable to justify not buffing the su76 to competence.

I think the su85 could be toned down regardless of the state of the su76 personally but that's neither here nor there.

Imagine wanting to nerf the su85 so that the POS su76 is built more. Imagine going through 50 pages of the wildest mental gymnastics imaginable to justify not buffing the su76 to competence.

Imagine posting continuously but being unable to contribute anything useful, tell how does it feel to be that non constructive and toxic T.R. Stormjäger?

And what is your opinion on opinion on Katitof post who suggested a similar thing, to nerf the Panther to make room for the stug/JP4?

I think the su85 could be toned down regardless of the state of the su76 personally but that's neither here nor there.

Well if you nerf the su85 how does the stock soviet army cope with the huge axis armour values? The t34/76 has some of the lowest pen in the game. You can't do that otherwise you're forcing soviets into commanders to counter specific doctrinal units which is unhealthy.

Well if you nerf the su85 how does the stock soviet army cope with the huge axis armour values? The t34/76 has some of the lowest pen in the game. You can't do that otherwise you're forcing soviets into commanders to counter specific doctrinal units which is unhealthy.

SU85 could easily be toned down to +15-+20% pen with vet. Currently it gets 95% pen chance at vet3 vs 300 armor, that's more than plenty. Against a vet3 SU85, both SOV and OST player will assume that all shots penetrate.
Plus they have the best snare infantry in the game.

SU85 could easily be toned down to +15-+20% pen with vet. Currently it gets 95% pen chance at vet3 vs 300 armor, that's more than plenty. Against a vet3 SU85, both SOV and OST player will assume that all shots penetrate.
Plus they have the best snare infantry in the game.

Why are you guys making suggestions for 2015 when it's 2020? There MIGHT be another balance patch and you people are posting wild suggestions to shake up core rosters.

Get a grip, any change is gonna be light stuff like removing 10% RA bonus from 5man Grens, +10sec Osttruppen recharge, Su76 slight mobility buff, riflemen snare availability buff etc. stuff that's surefire not gonna cause issues.

So in your opinion the Panther who is even more expensive than a SU-85 how much change should it have to damage a medium allied tank at range 50.

the panther is fine because it has a turret is faster is more armored and has some use vs infantry especially with the pintle... the tradeoff between the 60 range gun and the armor + turret + speed + usefulness vs infantry is very much worth its cost...

theres a reason why people prefer the panther over the jagdpanzer4 despite the fact that the JP4 can counter all stock allied armor except the churchill

Again if you can not counter PzIV with SU-85 you are probably doing something wrong. Risking a PzIV to kill a couple of conscripts models in not a great use of the unit.

and having an enemy buy an SU-85 to counter the panzer 4 that comes earlier than the SU-85 is a win for you... you forced the enemy to buy a unit that counters your one unit which bullies the opponent all the way till they get the SU-85... soo you know for sure that 1. the opponent spent more than you 2. the opponent now locked down a large portion of their CP on dedicated anti armor 3. the opponent wont be fielding anything competent against infantry anytime soon unless youre airborne...

theres a reason why i always prefer getting a T-34 first as airborne...

Does a 1vs1 duel in a vacuum make SU-76 have low DPS vs mediums?
I have provided the stat and they are crystal clear the SU-76's DPS is line if not superior for cost.

The claim that SU-76 has low DPS is simply false, pls move on.

it isnt lower in terms of raw DPS but it isnt efficient at conveying that DPS... when compared to the puma the latter can far more efficiently convey its DPS into its target

SU85 could easily be toned down to +15-+20% pen with vet. Currently it gets 95% pen chance at vet3 vs 300 armor, that's more than plenty. Against a vet3 SU85, both SOV and OST player will assume that all shots penetrate.
Plus they have the best snare infantry in the game.

why tone down the soviets though? theyre already the shittiest faction according to automatch stats... and the shittiest allied faction in the game... no need to make them suck more

why tone down the soviets though? theyre already the shittiest faction according to automatch stats... and the shittiest allied faction in the game... no need to make them suck more

from a 1v1 view? Otherwise you spelled "OKW" wrong.

from a 1v1 view? Otherwise you spelled "OKW" wrong.

the soviets have a lower winrate than OKW
https://www.coh2.org/topic/105597/1v1-automatch-stats/page/1#post_id822826

Soviets need buffs, not nerfs.

the panther is fine because it has a turret is faster is more armored and has some use vs infantry especially with the pintle... the tradeoff between the 60 range gun and the armor + turret + speed + usefulness vs infantry is very much worth its cost...

theres a reason why people prefer the panther over the jagdpanzer4 despite the fact that the JP4 can counter all stock allied armor except the churchill

That does not answer the question.

and having an enemy buy an SU-85 to counter the panzer 4 that comes earlier than the SU-85 is a win for you... you forced the enemy to buy a unit that counters your one unit which bullies the opponent all the way till they get the SU-85... soo you know for sure that 1. the opponent spent more than you 2. the opponent now locked down a large portion of their CP on dedicated anti armor 3. the opponent wont be fielding anything competent against infantry anytime soon unless youre airborne...

theres a reason why i always prefer getting a T-34 first as airborne...

Weird definition of win.

it isnt lower in terms of raw DPS but it isnt efficient at conveying that DPS... when compared to the puma the latter can far more efficiently convey its DPS into its target

Yes staying at range 60 and chipping away the enemy HP sound far less efficient than having to micro a squishy vehicles and waste munition on smoke just to keep it alive. I guess that is why people are spamming Puma to counter allied mediums.

Let me explain this in plain English Puma is primarily used to counter allied light vehicles because without it they can bleed you dry and that is irrelevant to the SU-76.

That does not answer the question.

it does... the answer is the panther is fine...

Weird definition of win.

what? if the opponent buys an SU-85 as area denial to your cheaper panzer 4 and ONLY your cheaper Panzer 4 then its a clear win on your end... all you simply have to do is to punish the soviet player for this by using infantry...

Yes staying at range 60 and chipping away the enemy HP sound far less efficient than having to micro a squishy vehicles and waste munition on smoke just to keep it alive. I guess that is why people are spamming Puma to counter allied mediums.

Let me explain this in plain English Puma is primarily used to counter allied light vehicles because without it they can bleed you dry and that is irrelevant to the SU-76.

let me ask you then as to why alot more people field pumas as opposed to SU-76s? theres a good reason why the SU-76 is barely used if at all...

the soviets have a lower winrate than OKW
https://www.coh2.org/topic/105597/1v1-automatch-stats/page/1#post_id822826

This data is statistically insignificant. The average does not differentiate between noobs and high level players. Of course OKW noobs will crush noobs from other factions. But at higher level play OKW fares worse and Soviets fare a better because once anyone actually takes the time to learn the game, Soviets become much more versatile while OKW becomes easy to abuse. I think it's better to put more emphasis on the stats from higher rankings because these players are actually knowledgable when it comes to game mechanics.

After reviewing the stats again, it seems both OKW and Soviet generally have the toughest time in the current meta.

This data is statistically insignificant. The average does not differentiate between noobs and high level players. Of course OKW noobs will crush noobs from other factions. But at higher level play OKW fares worse and Soviets fare a better because once anyone actually takes the time to learn the game, Soviets become much more versatile while OKW becomes easy to abuse. I think it's better to put more emphasis on the stats from higher rankings because these players are actually knowledgable when it comes to game mechanics.

actually theres more data than just plain winrate...



SOV consistently has the lowest winrate out of almost every point in the ladder so far... the faction is grossly underpowered

actually theres more data than just plain winrate...



SOV consistently has the lowest winrate out of almost every point in the ladder so far... the faction is grossly underpowered

First of all, this data is "just plain winrate", and this is the exact data I was referring to. Secondly, while it may seem that Soviets have the lowest winrate, I would like to remind you that the Eastern Front factions tend to have more players than the Western Front factions. So take it with a grain of salt because unless you take more specific data from say the top 1000 players of each faction, the low Soviet win rate could be because there is an excess of players (and therefore noobs) within the faction.

First of all, this data is "just plain winrate", and this is the exact data I was referring to. Secondly, while it may seem that Soviets have the lowest winrate, I would like to remind you that the Eastern Front factions tend to have more players than the Western Front factions. So take it with a grain of salt because unless you take more specific data from say the top 1000 players of each faction, the low Soviet win rate could be because there is an excess of players (and therefore noobs) within the faction.

what? thats winrate per ladder position... that winrate already gives the average winrate of a faction relative to their position in the ladder... it adjusts for "how many noobs" a faction has already...

what? thats winrate per ladder position... that winrate already gives the average winrate of a faction relative to their position in the ladder... it adjusts for "how many noobs" a faction has already...

Nevermind, you're right. If you look at the specific map stats, Soviets suffer extremely on a few maps (Langreskaya and Nexus).

yeah and for some dumb reason people still want to nerf the worst faction in the game...