Allied INF Team Games

This was the claim. This claim has been proven false because the it was a bullshit claim made from the depths of your arse. Moving goalposts doesn't work well when there is a paper trail....

Also as per your newest comment, why is the soviet player allowed to support their maxim to make it a win for them but the okw isn't allowed to support their kuble?
Its a 210mp recon car... It's not going to fight off the soviet union on its own any better than an Mg will beat one while the shoot end is facing another direction.

The intention was: OKW has NO good anti MG mechanic.

The intention was: OKW has NO good anti MG mechanic.

Had you said THAT the following pages of discussion would have been different. It's hard to tell what you mean when you don't say it. It's harder still to determine what you mean when you double down and demand testing on what you say. Try saying what you mean and clarifying what you mean before people spend pages proving what you say wrong and the forum will be much more productive for it.

Now that we have disposed of what you wrongly said we can move on to what you meant...

Flanking is the name of the game for okw.
As proven when disproving what you said before we got down to what you meant, the kuble, while cheap can punch above its weight and is not to be ignored. Some of the more foolish among us might feel that crew weapons are enough to repulse this car, but they would be wrong. Combined with the starting engineer that has StGs knowing that enemy resources will be limited and insufficient its possible to take out even supported mgs with fire superiority and mobility.

Once multiple mgs are around obviously it becomes a different goat and flanking is limited, but volks get all their goodies very quickly and combined with any other unit are formidable. Of course a strong defense position is going to be tough to crack, as with any faction but again you have the ability to move and harass elsewhere. Early game isn't about trying to smash through enemy strong points but exploiting the unit saturation of them. If you can't beat the enemy don't fight them. Be where they are not and strike when they are weak. Poking with a kuble that takes no manpower bleed is very viable for attrition, especially against the soviet who can't heal without another 250mp and a retreat to base.

Then of course once volks have their flame nade enemy mgs become obsolete because allied mgs can't keep multiple volks suppressed and will eat a flame nade assuming the okw player uses even the slightest but of micro....


EDIT seems you did first mention what I accused you of not. I went back for the quote I did but apparently not far enough. My apologies.

Had you said THAT the following pages of discussion would have been different. It's hard to tell what you mean when you don't say it.

He said that though in literally the first post of his.

And while I think his Kübel point is quite exaggerated, it's not absolutely wrong

Are we really comparing a 210 scout unit to a 240 MG unit?

The idea that a kubel that constantly needs to drive around to avoid MG rotation is UP is nonsensical. Is this really the level of discussions? A low fire arc recon vehicle can't shoot on the move? I mean honestly. This is a new low. And the argument "You need 2 units to drive out one". I mean, you lost all credibility by saying that. Holy F*** this is amazingly retarded.

He said that though in literally the first post of his.

And while I think his Kübel point is quite exaggerated, it's not absolutely wrong

Hmm. Seems he did. I guess I own him an apology on that. However the rest imo stands. Flanking is extremely viable and the kuble punches above its weight in both combat (especially the lack of bleed) and capping power.

Hmm. Seems he did. I guess I own him an apology on that. However the rest imo stands. Flanking is extremely viable and the kuble punches above its weight in both combat (especially the lack of bleed) and capping power.

umm, seems like u guys have gone a bit all over the place with this one but no way in hell is a kubel a good counter to mg's lol, in fact its terrible. if its a 1v1, all the maxim has to do is turn, so either the kubel can stay and die or try and change position which doing so it stops firing , while the maxim crew continues to damage it. But i highly doubt anyone goes for a kubel to counter mgs. (maybe x2 kubels can work)

As you have mentioned thedarkamillo, i do agree kubel has great capping power but no way in hell do i consider it to punch above its weight, its combat isn't as good as other mounted guns and has terrible scaling, I have no idea how that is considered punching above its weight. If the kubel is considered to punch above its weight, i wonder what does the make the WC51

umm, seems like u guys have gone a bit all over the place with this one but no way in hell is a kubel a good counter to mg's lol, in fact its terrible. if its a 1v1, all the maxim has to do is turn, so either the kubel can stay and die or try and change position which doing so it stops firing , while the maxim crew continues to damage it. But i highly doubt anyone goes for a kubel to counter mgs. (maybe x2 kubels can work)

As you have mentioned thedarkamillo, i do agree kubel has great capping power but no way in hell do i consider it to punch above its weight, its combat isn't as good as other mounted guns and has terrible scaling, I have no idea how that is considered punching above its weight. If the kubel is considered to punch above its weight, i wonder what does the make the WC51

Keep in mind the kuble costs only 210mp. It's quick to respond and doesn't bleed. I've done tests myself and itll actually beat all allied mainline infantry in a shoot out without cover (while not realistic scenario it does show that it's got some bite and again it only costs 210mp)

For the maxim turning, all the kuble has to do is withdraw and rengage the flank, it has the vision to decide how/when to engage. What's more, if it's turning to face your kuble its not facing where it was stopping your sturms from walking it off the map.

Its a tool like any.

As for the wc51 I think we can all agree it's over performing, granted at the very least it's got a munitions cost and can't be turned into fuel if lost by its own army.

Hi guys,

I agree with Protos Angelus that discussing a kubel flanking and losing to a maxim crew is something of low value, since there will be a CE or conscript nearby to pressure the kubel, if we want to compare same pop density which is more appropriate (ie a suppressed volks+ flanking kubel vs maxim+cons). Personally I find the kubel more of a burden as the game progresses, as you will always be one infantry squad behind. Of course it has it's use as early support/pressure.

I also think OKW is weak to mg openers on laney maps, where an mg and a couple infantry squads behind sandbags can shut down most flanking attempts. Compared to let's say USF which has heavy infantry presence (esp with free officer) and very fast access to smoke, OKW is much slower to access anti garrison. I believe the proposed tech changes will solve each and every early game problem of OKW, as a much more accessible BGHQ will make a fast combined arms strat possible. Similar to how the USF tech tree helped the faction a lot against lockdowns.

USF tech restructure*

Hi guys,

I agree with Protos Angelus that discussing a kubel flanking and losing to a maxim crew is something of low value, since there will be a CE or conscript nearby to pressure the kubel, if we want to compare same pop density which is more appropriate (ie a suppressed volks+ flanking kubel vs maxim+cons). Personally I find the kubel more of a burden as the game progresses, as you will always be one infantry squad behind. Of course it has it's use as early support/pressure.

I also think OKW is weak to mg openers on laney maps, where an mg and a couple infantry squads behind sandbags can shut down most flanking attempts. Compared to let's say USF which has heavy infantry presence (esp with free officer) and very fast access to smoke, OKW is much slower to access anti garrison. I believe the proposed tech changes will solve each and every early game problem of OKW, as a much more accessible BGHQ will make a fast combined arms strat possible. Similar to how the USF tech tree helped the faction a lot against lockdowns.

agree, i too hope the tech changes make it through but alot of good changes tend to get vetoed by certain members of the balance team.

Add incendiary bullets abillity to the kubel

give okw a t0 smoke option. like USF got since devs realize their play is shutdown by mg spam ...and oh wonder its the same for OKW.

give okw a t0 smoke option. like USF got since devs realize their play is shutdown by mg spam ...and oh wonder its the same for OKW.

1) Which devs? We haven't had one around for years, in fact, last time we've had an actual dev around, maxim was closer to obers then osttruppen in performance.

2) MGs do not shut down OKW play, they shut down YOURS play. USF doesn't get more then 1 if any, UKF forgot they even have it, Maxim was neutered to the point where its being buffed and buffed and it still sucks ass on top of arriving late. If by the time maxims arrive you are unable to flank them with unit count advantage, time to revisit how you play.

3) USF doesn't exactly start with lava nades unlocked, nor does it face HMGs that can be crawled up to and lava nuked frontally.

1) Which devs? We haven't had one around for years, in fact, last time we've had an actual dev around, maxim was closer to obers then osttruppen in performance.

2) MGs do not shut down OKW play, they shut down YOURS play. USF doesn't get more then 1 if any, UKF forgot they even have it, Maxim was neutered to the point where its being buffed and buffed and it still sucks ass on top of arriving late. If by the time maxims arrive you are unable to flank them with unit count advantage, time to revisit how you play.

3) USF doesn't exactly start with lava nades unlocked, nor does it face HMGs that can be crawled up to and lava nuked frontally.

1. Does this means that the cleaning woman implements and change the stats from units for us? Interesting. For your understanding dev doesn't mean a person which paid by the company. a dev is a person which can handle software and make changes on it.

2. did you know that the maxim comes at the same time on the field where your sec. OKW unit is in the build? and who cares about 30sec delay in a teamgame, where your mates have the first units nearly at the front? the first battle over a fuel point end mostly woth a lost for only-okw-teams, because they get easily push backs by MG, even more on lane maps.. this is fact and is easily proofable by 4 x okw game.

3. would be cool to come in range with volks to throw lava nades at mgs. mostly the sit behind the support units like pio and have a warning timewindow to prevent any dive in.

no other faction has problem vs mg, since the have hardcounters at start available.

Why dont u post a teamplay vid from you where u show us how godlike u handle MG spam as okw? So all other which struggle vs this can learn? Should be easy for you

1. Does this means that the cleaning woman implements and change the stats from units for us? Interesting. For your understanding dev doesn't mean a person which paid by the company. a dev is a person which can handle software and make changes on it.

It was community manager.
You know, that person that we have none atm officially.

2. did you know that the maxim comes at the same time on the field where your sec. OKW unit is in the build? and who cares about 30sec delay in a teamgame, where your mates have the first units nearly at the front? the first battle over a fuel point end mostly woth a lost for only-okw-teams, because they get easily push backs by MG, even more on lane maps.. this is fact and is easily proofable by 4 x okw game.

And from that moment onwards you pretty much always have 1 more unit on the field then soviets until mid 8th minute, allowing you to always be able to flank, 6-8th min onward you have access to LVs that hardcounter maxims.

3. would be cool to come in range with volks to throw lava nades at mgs. mostly the sit behind the support units like pio and have a warning timewindow to prevent any dive in.

You literally have trending vids and gifs doing EXACTLY THAT to maxims.

no other faction has problem vs mg, since the have hardcounters at start available.

Each faction has a weakness.
Ask USF about snipers, soviets about enemy upgraded infantry, UKF about spamming cheap units and capping all of the map now that they no longer cap faster etc.

Why dont u post a teamplay vid from you where u show us how godlike u handle MG spam as okw? So all other which struggle vs this can learn? Should be easy for you

Because when I'm playing a team game, I'm playing a fucking TEAM GAME, I have ost ally deal with them, while I prepare to roflstomp lights like AEC or T-70 the moment they come.
You know, you're supposed to coordinate in team games, ullugod who carries all the 4v4s should be aware of that.

give okw a t0 smoke option. like USF got since devs realize their play is shutdown by mg spam ...and oh wonder its the same for OKW.

Smoke nades need to be bought on USF, which delays tech, which can be substantial in all game modes. But yes, OKW should get some sort of smoke, whether locked behind first tech or upgrade.

EDIT: And for the MG counterplay early on. USF is pretty weak. No nades, no smoke on rifles or echelon. You need to fast tech to captain to get AAHT and pak howi. You could go mortar but you lose a lot of presence for a unit that won't necessarily pay for itself, given how expensive rifles are. 1v1 it's less pronounced because of a larger field of play, but in teamgames, the amount of units on the map, and laney-ness of most 3v3+ maps gives ample time for OST MGs to set up and cover a lot of ground. Still, never complained about that since there is ALWAYS a flank you can exploit or just focus different part of the map until you get the units to push out the bunkers. If you're throwing units headfirst on MGs and complaining how it's suppressing them and claiming MAXIM OP, then...no words.

It was community manager.
You know, that person that we have none atm officially.


And from that moment onwards you pretty much always have 1 more unit on the field then soviets until mid 8th minute, allowing you to always be able to flank, 6-8th min onward you have access to LVs that hardcounter maxims.



You literally have trending vids and gifs doing EXACTLY THAT to maxims.


Each faction has a weakness.
Ask USF about snipers, soviets about enemy upgraded infantry, UKF about spamming cheap units and capping all of the map now that they no longer cap faster etc.


Because when I'm playing a team game, I'm playing a fucking TEAM GAME, I have ost ally deal with them, while I prepare to roflstomp lights like AEC or T-70 the moment they come.
You know, you're supposed to coordinate in team games, ullugod who carries all the 4v4s should be aware of that.

- one unit more isnt a help, when u cant reach a MG, to trow a grenade. then show us a replay vs a same lvl enemy where you whooop his mg spam as okw.
- do you understand the meaning of a "ONLY-OKW-Team?"
- sniper is easy counterable as USF player, dont act like it makes the same struggle like mgs vs okw

- one unit more isnt a help, when u cant reach a MG, to trow a grenade. then show us a replay vs a same lvl enemy where you whooop his mg spam as okw.

Numerical advantage is an advantage.
If you can't use it properly, that's not my nor balance problem.

- do you understand the meaning of a "ONLY-OKW-Team?"

Do you understand that BGHQ with the exact tools you are asking for existing and the fact that you ALWAYS have access to them in team games, because its 2x okw and not 1 and if you lose the game because of pair of HMGs in team games within 3 minutes it takes to get counters up, that STILL is not balance problem?

- sniper is easy counterable as USF player, dont act like it makes the same struggle like mgs vs okw

HMG is easy counterable as OKW player, don't act like it makes the same struggle like snipers vs USF.

Numerical advantage is an advantage.
If you can't use it properly, that's not my nor balance problem.


Do you understand that BGHQ with the exact tools you are asking for existing and the fact that you ALWAYS have access to them in team games, because its 2x okw and not 1 and if you lose the game because of pair of HMGs in team games within 3 minutes it takes to get counters up, that STILL is not balance problem?



HMG is easy counterable as OKW player, don't act like it makes the same struggle like snipers vs USF.

yeah..double okw is so easy that you see their comon loss when facing alli factions, like here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dn3JU6m4DTo

okw is so strong vs maxim, that sully give up the right side after he bleeds and struggle to hard.

maybe some time in the future ...only maybe..you will install this game and play it ..and realize that your game experience from 4 years ago isnt the same anymore.

yeah..double okw is so easy that you see their comon loss when facing alli factions, like here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dn3JU6m4DTo

okw is so strong vs maxim, that sully give up the right side after he bleeds and struggle to hard.

maybe some time in the future ...only maybe..you will install this game and play it ..and realize that your game experience from 4 years ago isnt the same anymore.

Worst possible example ever to support your case that HMGs are problematic or to show that axis get roflstomped, it was actually a clever play from SOV with ISU doc with good play from USF which won the game. Not HMGs, OKW knew what to do to outplay the SOV. It was proper tight and suspenseful game to the very end with both sides having good chances to win. Balanced game, with the best team winning. Not a balance issue.