OKW vs UKF

This is really bad 1v1 advice.

Taking fights all over the map means you lose fights all over the map, since equal cover IS will beat Volks, forcing you to retreat while he caps/decaps and pops medkit. A single volks won't be able to flank a Vickers. And against UC you need multiple squads to actually force it back. I'd recommend getting a rak as your next unit once you confirm UC, and not before. Getting a rak if there's no UC will put you way behind in the infantry game, contrary to what Katitof claims.

You literally HAVE to pair squads together vs Brits until you're on STGs. Volks don't have enough close range DPS to charge IS 1v1, but you lose badly at range. If you have 2 squads, you can take a bit of bleed to force him into hard retreats and secure map control.

4 IS + UC doesn't hurt the manpower for AT at all and certainly isn't considered spam - it is in fact a very standard build which is very manpower efficient since OKW will bleed terribly against it. 4 IS + UC will curbstomp you if you try to rush for Luchs, since you will get overrun and lose map control. And since AEC has the exact same timing as Luchs, you'll be doubly ruined. If I even go mech at all vs Brits I go Puma first before Luchs, but most of the time I just rely on MG34 + leigs to exploit their lack of smoke, lack of indirect fire, and lack of rocket artillery.

I've been able to use one Strum and a Kubel to take on single infantry units. It usually works pretty well although I lose 1-2 Strums when I do this.

Panzerfusiliers seem to hold their own. (So far.)

You lose Pershings to a PG squad when the Pershing gets nerfed to hell because no one in this community cares that much about USF.

If only the Pershing had AI of the caliber the elefant does then maybe it could make up for inept leadership.

Your infantry units are far more cost effective than your opponents and preform better, so start with that. The standard infantry available to both Axis factions is vastly superior to what the USF/UKF have. Only Soviet Penals are comparable.

this whole thread speaks about how strong inf secs are and how volks are trash compared and you say only penals compare? I always do well when I play usf vs an okw player since you can easily close the gap and get close to a volk squad early with rifles and watch said volk squad melt.

this whole thread speaks about how strong inf secs are and how volks are trash compared and you say only penals compare? I always do well when I play usf vs an okw player since you can easily close the gap and get close to a volk squad early with rifles and watch said volk squad melt.

I know Volks and Grens usually come up short against Infantry Sections and Riflemen. But those aren't the only infantry available to OKW or Wehrmacht. For OKW specifically you have Strums, which are like Panzergrens and are T0, then you have Obersoldaten. Riflemen can do okay against Strums early but IS will struggle. Plus Riflemen and IS don't have a single ability that you don't have to pay, vet, or pick a doctrine to unlock. So just a little bit of extra map control and you'll be way ahead.

I know Volks and Grens usually come up short against Infantry Sections and Riflemen. But those aren't the only infantry available to OKW or Wehrmacht. For OKW specifically you have Strums, which are like Panzergrens and are T0, then you have Obersoldaten. Riflemen can do okay against Strums early but IS will struggle. Plus Riflemen and IS don't have a single ability that you don't have to pay, vet, or pick a doctrine to unlock. So just a little bit of extra map control and you'll be way ahead.

If your opponent has proper micro/positioning there aint a damn thing a sturm squad is going to do against them since you have to run right in their face to do significant damage and its ill advised to get more than the starter ones since they resort to being mine planters and repairmen as the match goes on and not to mention how expensive they are to buy and to reinforce.

I know Volks and Grens usually come up short against Infantry Sections and Riflemen. But those aren't the only infantry available to OKW or Wehrmacht. For OKW specifically you have Strums, which are like Panzergrens and are T0, then you have Obersoldaten. Riflemen can do okay against Strums early but IS will struggle. Plus Riflemen and IS don't have a single ability that you don't have to pay, vet, or pick a doctrine to unlock. So just a little bit of extra map control and you'll be way ahead.

And to touch on your obers point, they come way too late, vet way too slow, 4 man squad bound to get easily wiped, expensive to buy, expensive to reinforce, will bleed you hard

For OKW specifically you have Strums, which are like Panzergrens and are T0

Sturmpioneers are in no way like Panzergrenadiers. The only similarity they share is that they both are 4 man squads equipped with Sturmgewehr 44 s. Their abilities, their accuracy, their DPS and a bunch of other stuff are different.

then you have Obersoldaten.

Obers come late, cost way more MP than Rifles and need a 80 ammo upgrade to be even effective in the first place.

Sturmpioneers are in no way like Panzergrenadiers. The only similarity they share is that they both are 4 man squads equipped with Sturmgewehr 44 s. Their abilities, their accuracy, their DPS and a bunch of other stuff are different.








Obers come late, cost way more MP than Rifles and need a 80 ammo upgrade to be even effective in the first place.

Pretty much.

Strums are good as an early game bully that is highly prone to bleed. Properly microed Riflemen, IS and Penals eat it for breakfast. Other than getting STG that are effective AT VERY CLOSE RANGE, that's where the similarities between them and Pgrens end.

As stated, Obers come too late, cost too much, require a minimum of 60 muni (stg's) to be effective, and they can still be whipped by Vet 2 Riflemen Double Bars, Vet 3 Penals, Vet 2 Bolster IS with 1 Bren, and until they vet, they pretty much get pushed around by any Elite infantry unit. And Vet 0 MG 34's, shock troops simply laugh at them (by the way, they cost less and come way earlier and are already equipped with PPsh's)

They need to have their timing comparable to Fallschirms as a vanilla unit to be better, and they STILL would be pushed around until Panzer HQ upgrade. But at least they'd have an opportunity to vet. For their cost and timing, they need to start with at least one G43, two would be better and you lose one when you get STG's or MG34.

Honestly, with the way they are, if I'm going Luftwaffe, I use Fallschims as my bully units. They have weaker HP, but those double FG-42's give them the ability to push off elite infantry units. If I don't have Fallschims, I'll use Panzer Fusilers with G43's, they are simply better and can scale late game and gain Vet early.

I don't mind how much they cost. But purchasing an expensive unit that requires both Vet and 80 munitions to do what it is intended to do (and still can get it's ass whipped and high reinforcement cost), no. They are currently not good enough.

Might give u some ideas.

Might give u some ideas.

Yeah Hans was up 11-2 in KD until the 221 came out for Kimbo. 15 kills for the 221/223 in less than 9 minutes, even with an AEC roaming around.

Hans got punished really hard for skipping UC - which most Brit players wouldn't do, really.

Yeah Hans was up 11-2 in KD until the 221 came out for Kimbo. 15 kills for the 221/223 in less than 9 minutes, even with an AEC roaming around.

Hans got punished really hard for skipping UC - which most Brit players wouldn't do, really.

OP specifically complains about Hans build with 4 IS spam early on into fast Bolster (which Hans wasn't able due to having to get a fast AEC). He was 8-1 trading badly with Volks but with +50% map control. The 3 models lost on SP were due to getting into a 2+2 IS with only the 221 upon arrival.

An UC was too late to get at 4mins. At that point in the game an officer/MG/sniper/RE were the only units to get since he still didn't know about the 221.

Kibo played in the league of his own. He mocked Hans the whole game. I wouldn't draw any balance conclusions based on this specific matchup.

Generally Sturms are better pios. Lots of persisting opinions are based on the situation we had a patches ago (before all the buffs to cons, rifles and infantry sections). Since then sturms have been much easier to deal with and it is much easier to make them drop a model before they close in. Even cons can deal with them when stationary. Only a much better player than the allied opponent will be able to actually use Sturms effectively closing the distance and using them only at very close ranges.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KyR4--SSh7E&ab_channel=AECoH

Game 2. Elpern was doing fine with 221 till we was force to mass retreat leaving the unit alone against the AEC. This game has UC.



OKW is by far the worst faction in this meta for 1v1, but it's not like you can't draw ideas from people who are better at this game.

Kibo played in the league of his own. He mocked Hans the whole game. I wouldn't draw any balance conclusions based on this specific matchup.

Generally Sturms are better pios. Lots of persisting opinions are based on the situation we had a patches ago (before all the buffs to cons, rifles and infantry sections). Since then sturms have been much easier to deal with and it is much easier to make them drop a model before they close in. Even cons can deal with them when stationary. Only a much better player than the allied opponent will be able to actually use Sturms effectively closing the distance and using them only at very close ranges.

Please stop with the axis up.
You dont need to be a much better player to use sturms effectively. Just dont walk up to them out in the open from max range. Esp not when cons/section/rifles are behind any sort of cover.
Just because sturms cost more dont mean they should be better nearly every time/always at everything.

You dont walk conscripts into pgrens from max range out in the open. That will end badly for cons every time.

Please stop with the axis up.
You dont need to be a much better player to use sturms effectively. Just dont walk up to them out in the open from max range. Esp not when cons/section/rifles are behind any sort of cover.
Just because sturms cost more dont mean they should be better nearly every time/always at everything.

You dont walk conscripts into pgrens from max range out in the open. That will end badly for cons every time.

bait or autism?

bait or autism?

Reading comprehension or common sense?

Please stop with the axis up.
You dont need to be a much better player to use sturms effectively. Just dont walk up to them out in the open from max range. Esp not when cons/section/rifles are behind any sort of cover.
Just because sturms cost more dont mean they should be better nearly every time/always at everything.

You dont walk conscripts into pgrens from max range out in the open. That will end badly for cons every time.

But they ARE up. The last tourney is a great proof for it. If you look at all games it is clearly visible that players choosing allies had a higher chance of winning. I believe one of the better players (at least one) was eliminated because his opponent chose allies first (was allowed to chose first) and then had two games with them while only one with the axis.

I know how to use sturms, trust me on that. What You wrote here are the basics. Imo You should play some more okw and see for yourself. Sturms are good but I'm not sure they are good enough for 300mp and 4 men.

Post scriptum: after one of the above games Kmbo got a warning from the referees to play to his full potential and not delay the game on purpose.

But they ARE up. The last tourney is a great proof for it. If you look at all games it is clearly visible that players choosing allies had a higher chance of winning. I believe one of the better players (at least one) was eliminated because his opponent chose allies first (was allowed to chose first) and then had two games with them while only one with the axis.

I know how to use sturms, trust me on that. What You wrote here are the basics. Imo You should play some more okw and see for yourself. Sturms are good but I'm not sure they are good enough for 300mp and 4 men.

Post scriptum: after one of the above games Kmbo got a warning from the referees to play to his full potential and not delay the game on purpose.

Can you prove these claims of higher wins chances? The one example you give with choosing allies first resulting in a win isent enough to prove anything.
You believe this tournament is a great or the best way to indicate balance while it being a very small sample size?

You can say what you want about me needing playing okw more, but as long as you are known to toss stats and facts out the windows and ignore them completly, what you say does not hold any water.

Let me gues kimbo was stalling and got the warning when playing a allied faction? The warning was more for his arrogance then anything else.
And kimbo is just allround good he could even make the old soviets (pre golden day maxim) work current day. Using him to demonstrate the supiriority of allied or axis factions wont help your case.

Can you prove these claims of higher wins chances? The one example you give with choosing allies first resulting in a win isent enough to prove anything.
You believe this tournament is a great or the best way to indicate balance while it being a very small sample size?

You can say what you want about me needing playing okw more, but as long as you are known to toss stats and facts out the windows and ignore them completly, what you say does not hold any water.

Let me gues kimbo was stalling and got the warning when playing a allied faction? The warning was more for his arrogance then anything else.
And kimbo is just allround good he could even make the old soviets (pre golden day maxim) work current day. Using him to demonstrate the supiriority of allied or axis factions wont help your case.

True. You can't take a small tournament, draw conclusions, throw facts out the window and call it a day. One thing's experience, and other is factual argumentation. And using one player to prove something is UP or OP....well, Florence Nightingale, Gertrude Cox and Gauss would roll over in their grave hearing such malarkey...Infinitely more so, when you factor in the fact that COH2 has so many dynamic variables it's 99.9999...% impossible to predict the outcome of most time intervals in one game.

Reply to the both above posts.

1. It is not one tourney but a few consecutive tourneys.
2. Just funny how U yourselves use a game where one player was mocking another (You don't even realise this) because he is a much better player. You use it to demonstrate the power of sturm?. And then U claim I used one game to show sth. Hard to comment, really.
3. I don't ignore stats. It is actually the other way around. You not only ignore them but also can't understand them imo - mostly because of overcentrating on one stat rather than on how all of them are connected and how actually complicated it is to interpret them.
4. All the above is simply connected to the fact that U try to balance the game not even playing opposing factions.

Just finally reach similar level you have with Ur favourite allied factions/s with the axis faction U try to nerf or claim is OP! You will quickly change the perspective. Seriously do this homework first and then teach others how to use, for example, sturms. You don't need to be that high on the ladder board with opposing factions, just have similar level to Your favourite factions. Probably then You will look at the opposing factions differently (and advance with Ur favourite faction as knowing the enemy is the key btw