Why should a Panzer IV be able to take on a Jackson?
11 Aug 2020, 22:21 PM
#1
Posts: 888
Can someone explain this to me objectively? Because this seems to be the fundamental reason why there is so much whining for a Jackson nerf. I mean I hear people make stupid arguments like "make the Jackson only good against heavy armor" as that makes any sense or could be programmed. Basically it just boils down to people wanting a basic Panzer IV tank to be able to take on a dedicated tank destroyer? Pretty sad the devs gave in to whining and nerfed the Jackson anyway. Did they reduce it's cost back down to 145 fuel? Nope. Every time I go back to playing OST after USF and Brits I'm always shocked how cheap everything is.
11 Aug 2020, 22:36 PM
#2
Posts: 1515
Well, the Jackson got the armour nerf which has made it a true glass cannon in every sense. Can't bounce anything, is susceptible to dives, etc. Axis players will complain about ally units, Allies players will complain about Axis units. Jackson should never "only good against heavy armour". That can work with Brits (slow firing, high dmg Firefly), but the brits have Comet/Churchill to fill in the gaps against dives. The balance ATM is
There exist some small gaps between 1v1 and other game modes but that all boils down to skill more than some imaginary OP unit/s
There exist some small gaps between 1v1 and other game modes but that all boils down to skill more than some imaginary OP unit/s
How much wood could a woodchuck chuck, if a woodchuck could chuck wood?
https://coh2stats.com/players/76561198031032150
https://coh2stats.com/players/76561198031032150
11 Aug 2020, 22:49 PM
#3
Posts: 4183 | Subs: 4
It's almost like, a singular TD with equal mobility to a medium and 20 more range shouldn't just obliterate any armored unit it ever looks at. Especially the p4j, which has its extra cost basically negated by the jacksons pen.
11 Aug 2020, 22:50 PM
#4
Posts: 3588 | Subs: 3
Dunno, why should an M36 pen a KT and kite it indefinitely 1v1? KT costs more.
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11 Aug 2020, 23:04 PM
#5
Posts: 5279
Because that's how balance works. We know you really don't want to hear this but just having a unit shouldn't mean you can be bad and still win. If a medium tank Flanks or otherwise gets the jump on LITERALLY any other TD in the game the tank will be able to beat the TD
#stalinwept
11 Aug 2020, 23:58 PM
#6
Posts: 3423 | Subs: 1
Did they reduce it's cost back down to 145 fuel? Nope.
Are you on crack? 145 is exactly what it costs, it's never gone above that number...
12 Aug 2020, 00:28 AM
#7
Posts: 888
Are you on crack? 145 is exactly what it costs, it's never gone above that number...
My mistake, 140 fuel is what I meant.
12 Aug 2020, 01:59 AM
#8
Posts: 783
Well, the Jackson got the armour nerf which has made it a true glass cannon in every sense. Can't bounce anything, is susceptible to dives, etc. Axis players will complain about ally units, Allies players will complain about Axis units. Jackson should never "only good against heavy armour".
The only units the armor nerf really effected was the puma and the panzer 4. Everything barring light vehicles already penetrated the Jackson 100% of the time. Its not like it went from 640 hp to 320.
As for the allied vs axis players. By the numbers I'm predominantly an allied player-specifically with soviets, but I dont just blindly support every soviet buff or axis nerf.
12 Aug 2020, 10:02 AM
#9
Posts: 1515
The only units the armor nerf really effected was the puma and the panzer 4. Everything barring light vehicles already penetrated the Jackson 100% of the time. Its not like it went from 640 hp to 320.
As for the allied vs axis players. By the numbers I'm predominantly an allied player-specifically with soviets, but I dont just blindly support every soviet buff or axis nerf.
Ranked, I only play USF. Wouldn't be caught dead playing Nazis with some sort of record being taken. That being said I do play custom games with Axis against other players (and seldom AI after updates). If a nerf/buff is justified for either party, I'm all for it. The balance team is doing a pretty good job if you ask me. You'll always find people complaining on both sides of the pond. Either OKW is UP or USF is UP or this is OP or that is UP. BS if you ask me.
How much wood could a woodchuck chuck, if a woodchuck could chuck wood?
https://coh2stats.com/players/76561198031032150
https://coh2stats.com/players/76561198031032150
12 Aug 2020, 10:26 AM
#10
Posts: 2458 | Subs: 1
Ranked, I only play USF. Wouldn't be caught dead playing Nazis with some sort of record being taken. [...] The balance team is doing a pretty good job if you ask me.
Short summary of coh2 balance in August 2020.
12 Aug 2020, 12:05 PM
#11
Posts: 1701
Short summary of coh2 balance in August 2020.
We need some humour man, otherwise it would all be too serious, we must thank these people too
Blaue Division - The best corp
BPX - Black Phoenix, Clan leader.
BPX - Black Phoenix, Clan leader.
12 Aug 2020, 14:59 PM
#12
Posts: 1116 | Subs: 1
I say even more, why Stumpios are able to destoy my jackson. They are already MLG l33t inf, which wins 1v1 against everything. They can even destoy tanks. Dem thouse nazis.
12 Aug 2020, 15:55 PM
#13
Posts: 1563
Can someone explain this to me objectively? Because this seems to be the fundamental reason why there is so much whining for a Jackson nerf. I mean I hear people make stupid arguments like "make the Jackson only good against heavy armor" as that makes any sense or could be programmed. Basically it just boils down to people wanting a basic Panzer IV tank to be able to take on a dedicated tank destroyer? Pretty sad the devs gave in to whining and nerfed the Jackson anyway. Did they reduce it's cost back down to 145 fuel? Nope. Every time I go back to playing OST after USF and Brits I'm always shocked how cheap everything is.
I don't know but i'd(and probs you too) be pretty pissed if I couldn't beat a stug3 or JP4 from close range with things like croms/shermans/t34's and those things need more involved control from the player than the jackson. I'd imagine the reason is the same.
12 Aug 2020, 15:59 PM
#14
Posts: 177
Such a useless post. It's like listening to the internal monologue of allied fanboy after losing Jackson to p4 because you overreached.
The change that has been argued for is increasing the reloading time and damage result in equal DPS which is not a nerf. On the countrary, this results in increased alpha strike damage.
The change that has been argued for is increasing the reloading time and damage result in equal DPS which is not a nerf. On the countrary, this results in increased alpha strike damage.
12 Aug 2020, 16:01 PM
#15
Posts: 1563
Such a useless post. It's like listening to the internal monologue of allied fanboy after losing Jackson to p4 because you overreached.
The change that has been argued for is increasing the reloading time and damage result in equal DPS which is not a nerf. On the countrary, this results in increased alpha strike damage.
Codguy is always like this, call him a comic relief character.
12 Aug 2020, 16:47 PM
#16
Posts: 268
Ranked, I only play USF. Wouldn't be caught dead playing Nazis with some sort of record being taken. That being said I do play custom games with Axis against other players (and seldom AI after updates). If a nerf/buff is justified for either party, I'm all for it. The balance team is doing a pretty good job if you ask me. You'll always find people complaining on both sides of the pond. Either OKW is UP or USF is UP or this is OP or that is UP. BS if you ask me.
I dont wanna derail this threat, but you cant play Nazis in this game unless you play mods. Wehrmacht ≠ Nazis.
Cant leave this bullshit unanswered
12 Aug 2020, 17:13 PM
#17
Posts: 1515
I dont wanna derail this threat, but you cant play Nazis in this game unless you play mods. Wehrmacht ≠ Nazis.
Cant leave this bullshit unanswered
I know they are not Nazis. Nazi was a party. National Socialism led by Hitler. Wehrmacht is the combined force of Germany if I'm not mistaken. Don't know if that's what it's called today as well but Wehrmacht formed sometime when Hitler decided to go against the Versailles treaties about armament and bolster up it's combat forces. Luftwaffe was born, navy, ground forces, etc.
Still, I've heard stories from my grandparents and their friends who fought in Stalingrad and joined forces with the Western allies (after Germany was forced out of the Balkans). You can watch documentaries and movies about the Hitler Germany and all that is well, but to experience if 2nd hand... I've seen photos that were taken en-route to deeper Germany during the 1945 offensive. Stories and photos of what Germany did to Gypsies, Jews and other minorities, told by the people themselves (they are deceased now, all except my Grandpa), really makes your blood freeze. I just can't play with anything that was in some sort of connection to 1930-1950 Germany.
How much wood could a woodchuck chuck, if a woodchuck could chuck wood?
https://coh2stats.com/players/76561198031032150
https://coh2stats.com/players/76561198031032150
12 Aug 2020, 17:21 PM
#18
Posts: 682
I choose not to play brits because of psychological damage from roos but I don't preach to other players about how to play Brits. Custom stomp games are largely irrelevant.
https://allthatsinteresting.com/franz-stigler-charlie-brown
Obviously you don't have to look far to discover atrocities but there are pockets of humanity like the above story
https://allthatsinteresting.com/franz-stigler-charlie-brown
Obviously you don't have to look far to discover atrocities but there are pockets of humanity like the above story
/s
12 Aug 2020, 17:28 PM
#19
Posts: 518
I chose to not choose which fractions I shall not choose based on moral standards. Because at the end of the day it are just a few polygons.
Haha the votes on this alone show the euro synphatheizers feel they just deserve to win. Anytime an okw nerf is brought up. Brain dead faction that skilless people can play and i refuse to play because of it.
Playing with randoms
Haha the votes on this alone show the euro synphatheizers feel they just deserve to win. Anytime an okw nerf is brought up. Brain dead faction that skilless people can play and i refuse to play because of it.
I've talked with mods enough times, I know when I'm going overboard, I usually limit myself, but there is only so much tolerance I have for entitled, ignorant fucks like you
The idea that the Jackson needed ANY nerfing is so laughable. It only serves ONE task, how dare it be good at that. If it were a good against infantry like the Panther, King Tiger, Panzer IV, Jagtiger, Elefant, I could see how it might be a problem and need a nerf but it's not
Haha the votes on this alone show the euro synphatheizers feel they just deserve to win. Anytime an okw nerf is brought up. Brain dead faction that skilless people can play and i refuse to play because of it.
I've talked with mods enough times, I know when I'm going overboard, I usually limit myself, but there is only so much tolerance I have for entitled, ignorant fucks like you
I don't play this version of EZ mode very often because it's so boringly simple. But it is funny to see the Axis circle jerk with people complaining that the one faction with every crutch in the book is some how underpowered lol.
The idea that the Jackson needed ANY nerfing is so laughable. It only serves ONE task, how dare it be good at that. If it were a good against infantry like the Panther, King Tiger, Panzer IV, Jagtiger, Elefant, I could see how it might be a problem and need a nerf but it's not
Haha the votes on this alone show the euro synphatheizers feel they just deserve to win. Anytime an okw nerf is brought up. Brain dead faction that skilless people can play and i refuse to play because of it.
u deserve to lose if u don't have an Ele when there's an ISU.
Just stay out of topics u have no knowledge of, Latch.
Ranked, I only play USF. Wouldn't be caught dead playing Nazis with some sort of record being taken
I've talked with mods enough times, I know when I'm going overboard, I usually limit myself, but there is only so much tolerance I have for entitled, ignorant fucks like you, and wouldn't be surprised to be hit again, but I'm fed up with this bullshit and honestly, the sole fact that I'm not permad is what keeps me here having discussions about the game I like and yes, I do question myself why I still go back here to this free range insane asylum so often.
I've talked with mods enough times, I know when I'm going overboard, I usually limit myself, but there is only so much tolerance I have for entitled, ignorant fucks like you
12 Aug 2020, 20:54 PM
#20
Posts: 3166 | Subs: 6
The change that has been argued for is increasing the reloading time and damage result in equal DPS which is not a nerf.
For the record, such a change not effectively being a nerf is mostly impossible because the only reasonable damage increase (from 160 to 200) with an accompanying ROF nerf would actually increase the TTK for the most common targets (medium tanks at 640hp) even if DPM was kept the same, as the number of shots required to kill such a vehicle would remain the same because of overkill damage. It would be a good way to make the Jackson more balanced (becoming less effective against everything and becoming more specialized against heavy armor) but it definitely would be a nerf and it would require other changes for compensation.
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