State of OKW in the meta
1 Sep 2020, 17:59 PM
#241
Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2
The original statement started with red cover while the test were done in neutral cover.
My controls weren't working
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
1 Sep 2020, 18:44 PM
#242
Posts: 177
OK hows this idea for quicker Obers:
Split the current total schwer cost into two steps:
1. Step is to unlock the schwer tier in your hq which unlocks building obers from HQ and allows you to place down schwer
2. Tier is just to deploy the schwer. The gun is ready to shoot and you are able to build panzers from get go. This would also mean removing the useless panzer authorization upgrade.
The Tank timings stay the exact same but you can get obers much more quickly.
Split the current total schwer cost into two steps:
1. Step is to unlock the schwer tier in your hq which unlocks building obers from HQ and allows you to place down schwer
2. Tier is just to deploy the schwer. The gun is ready to shoot and you are able to build panzers from get go. This would also mean removing the useless panzer authorization upgrade.
The Tank timings stay the exact same but you can get obers much more quickly.
1 Sep 2020, 19:24 PM
#243
Posts: 5279
The original statement started with red cover while the test were done in neutral cover.
OK so I'm not crazy. I'm glad I didn't pull neg cover out of my ass.
Obers losing to ptrs penals in neg cover I don't particularly see an issue with for the reasons I was arguing but in neutral they shouldn't be pulling wins. Not sure how to fix that though to be honest.
#stalinwept
1 Sep 2020, 19:31 PM
#244
Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1
OK so I'm not crazy. I'm glad I didn't pull neg cover out of my ass.
Obers losing to ptrs penals in neg cover I don't particularly see an issue with for the reasons I was arguing but in neutral they shouldn't be pulling wins. Not sure how to fix that though to be honest.
If one wanted to fix it one should start by following the PF design and have them start without SVTs and having to choose between SVT or PTRS.
1 Sep 2020, 19:35 PM
#245
Posts: 5279
If one wanted to fix it one should start by following the PF design and have them start without SVTs and having to choose between SVT or PTRS.
I agree with that design philosophy regardless of the current discussion. great AI into easy AT is poor design. At least pgrens have to think long and hard about it.
#stalinwept
1 Sep 2020, 20:17 PM
#246
Posts: 1096
I agree with that design philosophy regardless of the current discussion. great AI into easy AT is poor design. At least pgrens have to think long and hard about it.
But AT penals are worthless beyond the early game unless they get a lucky satchel off.
Pzgrens are absolute AT beasts, hence why the change is more polarising.
1 Sep 2020, 22:32 PM
#247
Posts: 1116 | Subs: 1
But AT penals are worthless beyond the early game unless they get a lucky satchel off.
Pzgrens are absolute AT beasts, hence why the change is more polarising.
In 1v1 comparacent yes.
If you add mark target or guards pin or mines, they are still quite good.
1 Sep 2020, 23:46 PM
#248
Posts: 5279
But AT penals are worthless beyond the early game unless they get a lucky satchel off.
Pzgrens are absolute AT beasts, hence why the change is more polarising.
AT penals are defensive and far from useless late game. They make it so the enemy will not dive you. Plus they have low but steady AT DPS due to deflection damage. They have different roles but neither should retain their capacity to fight infantry, certainly not elite infantry, when upgraded into AT
#stalinwept
2 Sep 2020, 13:00 PM
#249
Posts: 1096
AT penals are defensive and far from useless late game. They make it so the enemy will not dive you. Plus they have low but steady AT DPS due to deflection damage. They have different roles but neither should retain their capacity to fight infantry, certainly not elite infantry, when upgraded into AT
The AT satchel is their only saving grace for the late game. They can do small amounts of damage that can add up but to utilise their ptrs rifles they have to be stationary/in the area for a long time. Making them easy pray for any enemy with rocket arty.
2 Sep 2020, 19:21 PM
#250
Posts: 143
for a ... long time?
cries in Sturmpio panzerschreck - reload
cries in Sturmpio panzerschreck - reload
2 Sep 2020, 19:26 PM
#251
Posts: 1351
The AT satchel is their only saving grace for the late game. They can do small amounts of damage that can add up but to utilise their ptrs rifles they have to be stationary/in the area for a long time. Making them easy pray for any enemy with rocket arty.
Once a vehicle is snared (button, sticky, etc) they can deal quite a lot of damage with their ptrs and on top of that they can add a lot of additional damage with a satchel. This will often finish off any vehicle. They are very powerful in combination with other Soviet AT options.
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2 Sep 2020, 19:42 PM
#252
Posts: 1515
Once a vehicle is snared (button, sticky, etc) they can deal quite a lot of damage with their ptrs and on top of that they can add a lot of additional damage with a satchel. This will often finish off any vehicle. They are very powerful in combination with other Soviet AT options.
That is true, but in most games (teamgames mostly) they will go against Panthers, which, even when snared are quite fast reverse (you can't chase down a snared Panther with zooks or piats or PTSRs even in reverse). If they satchel snare a P4 and the likes, then they have a good chance of killing it if you have 2 penals with PTSR (2x ptsr can't really kill any medium tanks, 4x can with a satchel snare) with ZiS or tank..
Penals are late game supporting units more than assaulting. Great, like you said, with other AT options.
How much wood could a woodchuck chuck, if a woodchuck could chuck wood?
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2 Sep 2020, 20:25 PM
#253
Posts: 5279
The AT satchel is their only saving grace for the late game. They can do small amounts of damage that can add up but to utilise their ptrs rifles they have to be stationary/in the area for a long time. Making them easy pray for any enemy with rocket arty.
Most MP AT is vulnerable to rocket arty.... That's what rocket arty is for.
They are defensive and are vulnerable to the same things defensive units are. Late game they protect your other harder hitting AT. plinking away and stopping your case mate TDs from getting circle strafed.
#stalinwept
2 Sep 2020, 22:22 PM
#254
Posts: 1096
Most MP AT is vulnerable to rocket arty.... That's what rocket arty is for.
They are defensive and are vulnerable to the same things defensive units are. Late game they protect your other harder hitting AT. plinking away and stopping your case mate TDs from getting circle strafed.
Well if we are going to be pedantic, all infantry and support weapons are vulnerable to rocket arty XD
But with shreks/bazookas the initial volley can still do decent damage and you can keep moving while they reload. If you move around with penals nothing would ever get damaged.
3 Sep 2020, 00:06 AM
#255
Posts: 213
The timing of Obers overall is just terrible for what they offer compared to other elite infantry. From my 2v2 experience its acceptable when you rush battlegroup into t4. But as soon as you go mech with luchs/puma/stuka you have to use call-in inf as an ober replacement. I just dont see a reason for obers to be in t4, while other comparable inf comes at cp2/3.
Mechanized or battlegroup could unlock Obers and the second built truck unlocks the lmg upgrade. This seems to be a more reasonable timing for me. If thats too soon, atleast make the lmg upgrade cheaper or free and the Stg obers a seperate unit. That would give the stg ability more flavor too.
Mechanized or battlegroup could unlock Obers and the second built truck unlocks the lmg upgrade. This seems to be a more reasonable timing for me. If thats too soon, atleast make the lmg upgrade cheaper or free and the Stg obers a seperate unit. That would give the stg ability more flavor too.
9 Sep 2020, 16:35 PM
#256
Posts: 1660
The timing of Obers overall is just terrible for what they offer compared to other elite infantry. From my 2v2 experience its acceptable when you rush battlegroup into t4. But as soon as you go mech with luchs/puma/stuka you have to use call-in inf as an ober replacement. I just dont see a reason for obers to be in t4, while other comparable inf comes at cp2/3.
Mechanized or battlegroup could unlock Obers and the second built truck unlocks the lmg upgrade. This seems to be a more reasonable timing for me. If thats too soon, atleast make the lmg upgrade cheaper or free and the Stg obers a seperate unit. That would give the stg ability more flavor too.
Battlegroup would make the Obers come too early
A better solution imho would be to make Obers unlock either with Mechanized or by setting up the Schewer, with the latter being necessary for the MG upgrade
9 Sep 2020, 17:27 PM
#257
Posts: 518
Battlegroup would make the Obers come too early
A better solution imho would be to make Obers unlock either with Mechanized or by setting up the Schewer, with the latter being necessary for the MG upgrade
My proposal would be to change the Schwere cost to 80 / 40 as opposed to 60 / 60 and make it so the Mg 34 isn't locked behind Flak Upgrade anymore
Haha the votes on this alone show the euro synphatheizers feel they just deserve to win. Anytime an okw nerf is brought up. Brain dead faction that skilless people can play and i refuse to play because of it.
Playing with randoms
Haha the votes on this alone show the euro synphatheizers feel they just deserve to win. Anytime an okw nerf is brought up. Brain dead faction that skilless people can play and i refuse to play because of it.
I've talked with mods enough times, I know when I'm going overboard, I usually limit myself, but there is only so much tolerance I have for entitled, ignorant fucks like you
The idea that the Jackson needed ANY nerfing is so laughable. It only serves ONE task, how dare it be good at that. If it were a good against infantry like the Panther, King Tiger, Panzer IV, Jagtiger, Elefant, I could see how it might be a problem and need a nerf but it's not
Haha the votes on this alone show the euro synphatheizers feel they just deserve to win. Anytime an okw nerf is brought up. Brain dead faction that skilless people can play and i refuse to play because of it.
I've talked with mods enough times, I know when I'm going overboard, I usually limit myself, but there is only so much tolerance I have for entitled, ignorant fucks like you
I don't play this version of EZ mode very often because it's so boringly simple. But it is funny to see the Axis circle jerk with people complaining that the one faction with every crutch in the book is some how underpowered lol.
The idea that the Jackson needed ANY nerfing is so laughable. It only serves ONE task, how dare it be good at that. If it were a good against infantry like the Panther, King Tiger, Panzer IV, Jagtiger, Elefant, I could see how it might be a problem and need a nerf but it's not
Haha the votes on this alone show the euro synphatheizers feel they just deserve to win. Anytime an okw nerf is brought up. Brain dead faction that skilless people can play and i refuse to play because of it.
u deserve to lose if u don't have an Ele when there's an ISU.
Just stay out of topics u have no knowledge of, Latch.
Ranked, I only play USF. Wouldn't be caught dead playing Nazis with some sort of record being taken
I've talked with mods enough times, I know when I'm going overboard, I usually limit myself, but there is only so much tolerance I have for entitled, ignorant fucks like you, and wouldn't be surprised to be hit again, but I'm fed up with this bullshit and honestly, the sole fact that I'm not permad is what keeps me here having discussions about the game I like and yes, I do question myself why I still go back here to this free range insane asylum so often.
I've talked with mods enough times, I know when I'm going overboard, I usually limit myself, but there is only so much tolerance I have for entitled, ignorant fucks like you
9 Sep 2020, 17:42 PM
#258
Posts: 1660
My proposal would be to change the Schwere cost to 80 / 40 as opposed to 60 / 60 and make it so the Mg 34 isn't locked behind Flak Upgrade anymore
Just apply Sander/Miragefla changes, especially with okw teching
9 Sep 2020, 21:46 PM
#259
Posts: 1351
Just apply Sander/Miragefla changes, especially with okw teching
Yep. All are good.
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