And that is why they are so difficult to balance. The crew argument is absolutely valid.
Well, then remove the crew from the jeep. Should be a step in the right direction.
Is the WC 51 overperforming ?
8 Aug 2020, 08:09 AM
#61
Posts: 249
Well, then remove the crew from the jeep. Should be a step in the right direction.
8 Aug 2020, 08:13 AM
#62
Posts: 1351
Well, then remove the crew from the jeep. Should be a step in the right direction.
Simple and effective.
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8 Aug 2020, 08:15 AM
#63
Posts: 1351
I think the thing is the crew here is actually worth the cost of the vehicle. Like if I rush forward with a basic WC51 with Riflemen then immediately disembark even if the enemy tries to capture it I've got a good deal.
Personally I'd just make it cost 260 manpower or 200 manpower 10 fuel or remove the crew like how most artillery vehicles for the US work.
I don't think the artillery is useful because it's 180 muni and situational as hell, the mark target, step on it and 50 cal can be really frustrating though.
I would argue that the 51 is slightly OP but not as strong as a few people here have said.
I agree with all the above. The problem is that if sth is given to the unit, the price should reflect it. In this case the jeep should be available probably only on black Friday.
(09.10.2019): "You really are a jewel to this forum" - feels proud, thank You
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8 Aug 2020, 09:49 AM
#64
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
And that is why they are so difficult to balance. The crew argument is absolutely valid.
Except... they ARE balanced.
Its not 2015 anymore, update your game.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
8 Aug 2020, 10:05 AM
#65
Posts: 1351
Except... they ARE balanced.
Its not 2015 anymore, update your game.
The unit is luckily pretty fragile. Still it is just too potent for its cost.
(09.10.2019): "You really are a jewel to this forum" - feels proud, thank You
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8 Aug 2020, 14:24 PM
#66
Posts: 5279
The unit is luckily pretty fragile. Still it is just too potent for its cost.
Its cost being 200mp and having no gun or 200mp and 45mu to have a gun right?
Or are we talking about the abilities specifically?
#stalinwept
8 Aug 2020, 14:41 PM
#67
Posts: 1351
Its cost being 200mp and having no gun or 200mp and 45mu to have a gun right?
Or are we talking about the abilities specifically?
I guess the whole package is too much compared to similar vehicles imo. I feel, for example, kubel should trade more evenly with it.
I'd adjust (increase) its cost to a bit more tbh.
(09.10.2019): "You really are a jewel to this forum" - feels proud, thank You
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8 Aug 2020, 15:56 PM
#68
Posts: 5279
I guess the whole package is too much compared to similar vehicles imo. I feel, for example, kubel should trade more evenly with it.
I'd adjust (increase) its cost to a bit more tbh.
The kuble trades quite favorably with it until it gets a gun. The price difference is only 10mp before that so it shouldn't be beating its ass too hard.
#stalinwept
8 Aug 2020, 17:15 PM
#69
Posts: 1351
The kuble trades quite favorably with it until it gets a gun. The price difference is only 10mp before that so it shouldn't be beating its ass too hard.
Well, tbfh the upgrade makes it very potent. Can it still carry a squad after it is upgunned? Even if it traded 50-50 with kubel after the upgrade it would be a much better vehicle. With crew and many useful abilities. Its mg is better than kubels' at fighting infantry. So to make it a better design a price increase of 50 would probably make it somehow at least "pay" for all the goodies. It wouldn't be enough but you just can't make such a vehicle too expensive.
(09.10.2019): "You really are a jewel to this forum" - feels proud, thank You
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8 Aug 2020, 20:10 PM
#70
Posts: 5279
Well, tbfh the upgrade makes it very potent. Can it still carry a squad after it is upgunned? Even if it traded 50-50 with kubel after the upgrade it would be a much better vehicle. With crew and many useful abilities. Its mg is better than kubels' at fighting infantry. So to make it a better design a price increase of 50 would probably make it somehow at least "pay" for all the goodies. It wouldn't be enough but you just can't make such a vehicle too expensive.
Tbh I'd rather pull both abilities off it and stick then on the cav rifles since infantry is supposed to scale better than LVs.
#stalinwept
8 Aug 2020, 20:12 PM
#71
Posts: 1351
Tbh I'd rather pull both abilities off it and stick then on the cav rifles since infantry is supposed to scale better than LVs.
Yeah. Another sensible option I guess. And probably step on it should be muni paid. Doesn't have to be much but at least sth to end the frustration on the receiving end.
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8 Aug 2020, 20:20 PM
#72
Posts: 5279
Yeah. Another sensible option I guess. And probably step on it should be muni paid. Doesn't have to be much but at least sth to end the frustration on the receiving end.
Mark target would be acceptable as a standard ability but I'd force the arty to be delayed to major tech as it is now. Since cav rifles have a rather short shelf life as it is I think this would be acceptable scaling. Price could go up if needed.
#stalinwept
8 Aug 2020, 20:36 PM
#73
Posts: 1351
Yeah. Another sensible option I guess. And probably step on it should be muni paid. Doesn't have to be much but at least sth to end the frustration on the receiving end.
Edit: Just had a game - you can easily put cavalrymen after it is upgraded. Just too much. Crazy design.
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8 Aug 2020, 21:19 PM
#74
Posts: 1096
Nah it's fine for team games so I'd rather it wasn't nerfed into obscurity for the sake of 1v1's.
9 Aug 2020, 04:28 AM
#75
Posts: 503 | Subs: 1
Are you trolling again? Comparing 76mm's AI with Jackson when Jackson has no AI and AT with M4 when M4's AT finds it tough to go toe-to-toe against pz4? While comparing dolphins with humans would you consider swimming or running?
I don't remember the 5 vehicles do list them out will help me. The last 3 things are found in the WC 51 which a lot but it barely is able to survive past the 5 min mark or when the early axis light vehicles hit the field.
And you are correct WC51 nerf will not make the commander totally useless since it is already totally useless with the WC51 in it and also if this commander provides a lot of doc vehicles or abilities why does it fails to even make the top3 for USF commanders? You won't even find this commander in the loadout of <250 rank matches.
It's in the loadout of virtually every match in top 100. No idea what you're smoking.
Yes, the WC51 is the main reason to get the commander. Because it's pretty damn fking OP. It's insanely fast and can outrun a 222, has 45 range, high dps, and is great for cheesey chase-wipes in the first 5 mins of the game, which allows you to build that USF snowball.
The whole commander (the way VonIvan popularised it) was built on WC51 abuse into quick Sherman and snowballing/bleeding your opponent super hard. Go big or go home style of play.
It's actually the easiest ultra light to keep alive into the midgame since it has muni-free step on it, high sight range, and insane speed/acceleration values. Most players lose it to mines or unexpected rak/pak hitting from afar rather than the 222 or Luchs.
9 Aug 2020, 08:42 AM
#76
Posts: 1351
It's in the loadout of virtually every match in top 100. No idea what you're smoking.
Yes, the WC51 is the main reason to get the commander. Because it's pretty damn fking OP. It's insanely fast and can outrun a 222, has 45 range, high dps, and is great for cheesey chase-wipes in the first 5 mins of the game, which allows you to build that USF snowball.
The whole commander (the way VonIvan popularised it) was built on WC51 abuse into quick Sherman and snowballing/bleeding your opponent super hard. Go big or go home style of play.
It's actually the easiest ultra light to keep alive into the midgame since it has muni-free step on it, high sight range, and insane speed/acceleration values. Most players lose it to mines or unexpected rak/pak hitting from afar rather than the 222 or Luchs.
Exactly.
The funniest thing in this thread is that there are still people who just don't see how much more resources and micro need to be spent by the opponent to do sth similarly powerful. People just don't play all factions.
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9 Aug 2020, 08:44 AM
#77
Posts: 1351
Nah it's fine for team games so I'd rather it wasn't nerfed into obscurity for the sake of 1v1's.
Well, it is fine as long as it is You who is using it. Not Your opponent. But I understand it is more of a problem in 1v1 than in 4v4.
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9 Aug 2020, 13:25 PM
#78
Posts: 518
(To all those claiming that this doctrine is bad)
A bit OT but also commander and WC 51 related.
The 76 mm Sherman seems to be quite potent. Even though it only costs 5 fuel more than OST Pz 4 it is able to beat one without any problems ( even against OKW Pz 4 for OST it can be a even fight). Once vetet up it can even face Panthers while being better at AI than Panther ( and ofc better at AI than Jackson ).
Now remember that the WC 51 provides this doctrine with a "Mark the Target" ability and reconsider if it is really that bad in late game or if the WC 51 really needs this ability.
Also: Cavalry Riflemen.
A bit OT but also commander and WC 51 related.
The 76 mm Sherman seems to be quite potent. Even though it only costs 5 fuel more than OST Pz 4 it is able to beat one without any problems ( even against OKW Pz 4 for OST it can be a even fight). Once vetet up it can even face Panthers while being better at AI than Panther ( and ofc better at AI than Jackson ).
Now remember that the WC 51 provides this doctrine with a "Mark the Target" ability and reconsider if it is really that bad in late game or if the WC 51 really needs this ability.
Also: Cavalry Riflemen.
Haha the votes on this alone show the euro synphatheizers feel they just deserve to win. Anytime an okw nerf is brought up. Brain dead faction that skilless people can play and i refuse to play because of it.
Playing with randoms
Haha the votes on this alone show the euro synphatheizers feel they just deserve to win. Anytime an okw nerf is brought up. Brain dead faction that skilless people can play and i refuse to play because of it.
I've talked with mods enough times, I know when I'm going overboard, I usually limit myself, but there is only so much tolerance I have for entitled, ignorant fucks like you
The idea that the Jackson needed ANY nerfing is so laughable. It only serves ONE task, how dare it be good at that. If it were a good against infantry like the Panther, King Tiger, Panzer IV, Jagtiger, Elefant, I could see how it might be a problem and need a nerf but it's not
Haha the votes on this alone show the euro synphatheizers feel they just deserve to win. Anytime an okw nerf is brought up. Brain dead faction that skilless people can play and i refuse to play because of it.
I've talked with mods enough times, I know when I'm going overboard, I usually limit myself, but there is only so much tolerance I have for entitled, ignorant fucks like you
I don't play this version of EZ mode very often because it's so boringly simple. But it is funny to see the Axis circle jerk with people complaining that the one faction with every crutch in the book is some how underpowered lol.
The idea that the Jackson needed ANY nerfing is so laughable. It only serves ONE task, how dare it be good at that. If it were a good against infantry like the Panther, King Tiger, Panzer IV, Jagtiger, Elefant, I could see how it might be a problem and need a nerf but it's not
Haha the votes on this alone show the euro synphatheizers feel they just deserve to win. Anytime an okw nerf is brought up. Brain dead faction that skilless people can play and i refuse to play because of it.
u deserve to lose if u don't have an Ele when there's an ISU.
Just stay out of topics u have no knowledge of, Latch.
Ranked, I only play USF. Wouldn't be caught dead playing Nazis with some sort of record being taken
I've talked with mods enough times, I know when I'm going overboard, I usually limit myself, but there is only so much tolerance I have for entitled, ignorant fucks like you, and wouldn't be surprised to be hit again, but I'm fed up with this bullshit and honestly, the sole fact that I'm not permad is what keeps me here having discussions about the game I like and yes, I do question myself why I still go back here to this free range insane asylum so often.
I've talked with mods enough times, I know when I'm going overboard, I usually limit myself, but there is only so much tolerance I have for entitled, ignorant fucks like you
9 Aug 2020, 21:54 PM
#79
Posts: 888
The doctrine is pretty meh even though it's filled to the brim with all this crap.
The WC51 is the best part of the doctrine though because for a faction with no early game advantages it's nice to have a T0 unit that can do certain things not possible in any other doctine.
The WC51 is the best part of the doctrine though because for a faction with no early game advantages it's nice to have a T0 unit that can do certain things not possible in any other doctine.
10 Aug 2020, 11:55 AM
#80
Posts: 518
The doctrine is pretty meh even though it's filled to the brim with all this crap.
Still gets chosen by top 100 players so maybe it is not that "meh"
The WC51 is the best part of the doctrine though because for a faction with no early game advantages it's nice to have a T0 unit that can do certain things not possible in any other doctine
No earlygame advantages ? Riflemen beat Volks, Grens and even Sturmpioneers. Tell me more about no earlygame advantages
The WC51 is the best part of the doctrine
Probably. But it is by far not the only useful / strong part of this doctrine
Haha the votes on this alone show the euro synphatheizers feel they just deserve to win. Anytime an okw nerf is brought up. Brain dead faction that skilless people can play and i refuse to play because of it.
Playing with randoms
Haha the votes on this alone show the euro synphatheizers feel they just deserve to win. Anytime an okw nerf is brought up. Brain dead faction that skilless people can play and i refuse to play because of it.
I've talked with mods enough times, I know when I'm going overboard, I usually limit myself, but there is only so much tolerance I have for entitled, ignorant fucks like you
The idea that the Jackson needed ANY nerfing is so laughable. It only serves ONE task, how dare it be good at that. If it were a good against infantry like the Panther, King Tiger, Panzer IV, Jagtiger, Elefant, I could see how it might be a problem and need a nerf but it's not
Haha the votes on this alone show the euro synphatheizers feel they just deserve to win. Anytime an okw nerf is brought up. Brain dead faction that skilless people can play and i refuse to play because of it.
I've talked with mods enough times, I know when I'm going overboard, I usually limit myself, but there is only so much tolerance I have for entitled, ignorant fucks like you
I don't play this version of EZ mode very often because it's so boringly simple. But it is funny to see the Axis circle jerk with people complaining that the one faction with every crutch in the book is some how underpowered lol.
The idea that the Jackson needed ANY nerfing is so laughable. It only serves ONE task, how dare it be good at that. If it were a good against infantry like the Panther, King Tiger, Panzer IV, Jagtiger, Elefant, I could see how it might be a problem and need a nerf but it's not
Haha the votes on this alone show the euro synphatheizers feel they just deserve to win. Anytime an okw nerf is brought up. Brain dead faction that skilless people can play and i refuse to play because of it.
u deserve to lose if u don't have an Ele when there's an ISU.
Just stay out of topics u have no knowledge of, Latch.
Ranked, I only play USF. Wouldn't be caught dead playing Nazis with some sort of record being taken
I've talked with mods enough times, I know when I'm going overboard, I usually limit myself, but there is only so much tolerance I have for entitled, ignorant fucks like you, and wouldn't be surprised to be hit again, but I'm fed up with this bullshit and honestly, the sole fact that I'm not permad is what keeps me here having discussions about the game I like and yes, I do question myself why I still go back here to this free range insane asylum so often.
I've talked with mods enough times, I know when I'm going overboard, I usually limit myself, but there is only so much tolerance I have for entitled, ignorant fucks like you
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