OKW IR HT

So yeah. This unit has been butchered pretty badly, because of the bug. I really dont know why balance team decided to make it into what it is right now, because it feels like it was more of a excuse fix rather then a fix.

Here is my suggestions

Sight:

Well firstly because it gives you 90 range sight WHICH can be blocked by sight blocks. Which is already limits use of the unit dramatically and makes it potentially vunerable, since you need to baby sit it, in order not to get focused.

Here is what I did in a attrib editor:
Show Spoiler
And here is the result:
Show Spoiler
What its pretty much does, it gives you same 90 range as right now, but in 180* cone and ignores sight blocks.

I think if someone who knows how attrib editor works do it, its even possible for it to follow the cone effect and rotate.

Ability:

And regarding its ability to spot for muni? Again its pointless, considering you have free spoting on vet 1 kubel which more or less gives the same results.

I would rather give it marktarget ability or even a smoke call in barage, to make it more impactfull.

Becase for real, getting kubel to vet 1 is very easy.

Cost:
I think it would be more or less alright as it is with new sight mechanic.

Right now it cost you 200 MP and 10 fuel and 5p, while fuel is some what alright 200MP is a huge invesment just for a spotting unit, which have to sit on the front line.

5 population is a different topic since OKW population is already messed up badly.

The OP IRHT does not need another buff.

The OP IRHT does not need another buff.

QOL is OP

OKW has the best units ingame. Giving them OP recon is simply OP.

So yeah. This unit has been butchered pretty badly, because of the bug. I really dont know why balance team decided to make it into what it is right now, because it feels like it was more of a excuse fix rather then a fix.

Here is my suggestions

Sight:

Well firstly because it gives you 90 range sight WHICH can be blocked by sight blocks. Which is already limits use of the unit dramatically and makes it potentially vunerable, since you need to baby sit it, in order not to get focused.

Here is what I did in a attrib editor:
Show Spoiler

And here is the result:
Show Spoiler

What its pretty much does, it gives you same 90 range as right now, but in 180* cone and ignores sight blocks.

I think if someone who knows how attrib editor works do it, its even possible for it to follow the cone effect and rotate.

Ability:

And regarding its ability to spot for muni? Again its pointless, considering you have free spoting on vet 1 kubel which more or less gives the same results.

I would rather give it marktarget ability or even a smoke call in barage, to make it more impactfull.

Becase for real, getting kubel to vet 1 is very easy.

Cost:
I think it would be more or less alright as it is with new sight mechanic.

Right now it cost you 200 MP and 10 fuel and 5p, while fuel is some what alright 200MP is a huge invesment just for a spotting unit, which have to sit on the front line.

5 population is a different topic since OKW population is already messed up badly.

That is a noice idea in general.
However I'd say this implementation would make the unit's design almost worse than it was before the fix, since you could now park it behind shot blockers AND use it to spot for artillery. While the previous implementation also uncovered hidden units, at least there was no real spotting.
I could see some use as a timed muni ability though, probably with tweaks to sight range, cone etc

That is a noice idea in general.
However I'd say this implementation would make the unit's design almost worse than it was before the fix, since you could now park it behind shot blockers AND use it to spot for artillery. While the previous implementation also uncovered hidden units, at least there was no real spotting.
I could see some use as a timed muni ability though, probably with tweaks to sight range, cone etc

Thing is, you are still in range of any arty\mortar shotblockers might be a problem, but they are not persistant across all the maps and usually not in the best spots. And pretty much still sit close to the front line so you are vunerable to rushes anyway.

But it always can work like before with cone actually rotating with the scope (and it could be make smaller) itself, in this case it would make it harder to spot for arty.

Not to mention that price of IR HT could just simply be increased to match better perfomance and be limited to 1 per player.

Also it could have same pack\un-pack time as OKW 221 on point (or close to this). Aswell health can be reduced to make it more vunerable to LVs rush.

There are a lot of ways to balance it out without making it garbage.

Considering IGS general perfomance and how its in general considered support soft counter, I dont see the problem in this synergy honestly.

Yes its strong, but why it shouldn't be? At least there would be another option to counter heavy support weapons spam without brainlessly going for stuka.

Good suggestions, it's really not worth its pop cap currently. The issues were highlighted during testing, and ultimately ignored unfortunately

Just do this, raise the price accordingly and limite 1 to player. Fixed.

There is mod by sneakeyes where the IR can see thru shot blockers but for limited time. It was even suggested during the patch. People can check it out and see how they like it.

Thing is, you are still in range of any arty\mortar shotblockers might be a problem, but they are not persistant across all the maps and usually not in the best spots. And pretty much still sit close to the front line so you are vunerable to rushes anyway.

But it always can work like before with cone actually rotating with the scope (and it could be make smaller) itself, in this case it would make it harder to spot for arty.

Not to mention that price of IR HT could just simply be increased to match better perfomance and be limited to 1 per player.

Also it could have same pack\un-pack time as OKW 221 on point (or close to this). Aswell health can be reduced to make it more vunerable to LVs rush.

There are a lot of ways to balance it out without making it garbage.

Considering IGS general perfomance and how its in general considered support soft counter, I dont see the problem in this synergy honestly.

Yes its strong, but why it shouldn't be? At least there would be another option to counter heavy support weapons spam without brainlessly going for stuka.

The issue I always had with it is that it is quite difficult to kill. Even in the previous buggy form it was quite a nuisance. It takes two shots to kill it, but is so cheap that it is not worth risking a unit for it. So the best chance you got is if your opponent forgot about pulling the unit back at some point.

Mortars and heavy artillery cannot really counter it since they do not enough damage (ML20 for example does 200 damage, you need to be really unlucky to be hit almost directly twice. Chances are that you get out of there in time). And if your opponent wastes a barrage on a vehicle that is likely to get away anyway, you can actually be quite lucky because it does not bleed your infantry. Many mortars might be spotted anyway when firing (range difference to a barrage is 10 meters), but they also don't do enough damage to reliably deal with it (would take 4 direct hits).

Many maps especially in team games provide enough cover and blockers to park some units behind. I don't think the unit will see much use in 1v1, and I fear it might become super cheesy in team games if they can uncover half the front line constantly. A scanning motion however would probably screw with Axis mortars since they would reposition constantly. The enemy will be in the fog of war again once they are ready to fire.

I think the best concept for this unit is to keep it cheap so that it does not screw with your tank timings too much, provide okay-ish recon for mostly defensive purposes as a standard mode and then provide timed better recon if needed (potentially for offense or to check out enemy positions). Otherwise it might just reinforce the arty slugfest that already starts at 2v2 even more.

Recon works best if it requires decent input from the attacking side and potential counters from the defensive side. This is how most recon abilities work in the game. Pfussilier flares, SOV mortar flares, OKW and SOV plantable flares, recon planes, activatable unit abilities.

But if I am honest it's mostly my gut feeling. I have not used the unit an awful lot since the last patch.

Welp ye, but I didnt say that its stats shouldnt be ajusted.

Ones again it simply could have

1) Lower HP to die in 1 hit against tanks and in 2 against LVs.
2) Lower armor (so inderect fire units can pottentially harras it)
3) Set up time like 221
4) When activated it can even always have a main-gun crit (breaking the glass) upon taking damage so it will always need a repair. Buffing inderect fire units against it.
5) Small fuel ajustment or even MP ajustment

As I said there are plenty of ways you can balance it out. Just pick few and its good to go really.

Welp ye, but I didnt say that its stats shouldnt be ajusted.

Ones again it simply could have

1) Lower HP to die in 1 hit against tanks and in 2 against LVs.
2) Lower armor (so inderect fire units can pottentially harras it)
3) Set up time like 221
4) When activated it can even always have a main-gun crit (breaking the glass) upon taking damage so it will always need a repair. Buffing inderect fire units against it.
5) Small fuel ajustment or even MP ajustment

As I said there are plenty of ways you can balance it out. Just pick few and its good to go really.

Yes sure there are some ways. My main point is just that recon should require input and this unit would be a prime example of park somewhere and forget until you get pushed.

Quickly regarding the points you made:
1) Might work, was already suggested but not implemented. Don't know if balance team decided against it or if it was not a priority. Downside might be that there could be some cheesy counter wipes by stationary Allied arty that you can't do anything against (with 160 HP, 1 hit of an ML20 would insta kill it).
2) The issue with indirect fire is that is does not do enough damage. Assuming the current health, it just takes too many shells even if all penetrate.
3) As I already mentioned, I think this unit is "park and forget", so set up won't do much. Long tear down time however would allow more counterplay.
4) Yes, might be an option, although I think it might become too fiddly again.
5) +

QOL is OP

QOL? X-ray sight is not exactly QOL bud. That's a big buff for really no reason. Thing is already constant recon in a really big radius and it doesn't even get one shot. It's not exactly the worst unit in the game, it was wildly OP before it got nerfed.

QOL? X-ray sight is not exactly QOL bud. That's a big buff for really no reason. Thing is already constant recon in a really big radius and it doesn't even get one shot. It's not exactly the worst unit in the game, it was wildly OP before it got nerfed.

Bud, you should re-read thread more carefully before triggering to a specific words.

Firstly there is a justification why correct version of this unit is not working.
Secondly there are plenty of nerf suggestions along side with this change.