T-34 Ram

There are tons of argues about this ability. Some people wants to changed it, due huge potential from ram+il2 bombs. Some wants to replaced it.

T-34 as itself - cheap (consider other mediums) tank with good AI potential when you don't forget to use frontal mg against infantry. It AT potential mediocre. But it have very unique ability - Ram. This ability not so often used in 1vs1, but in 2vs2 it's become more viable due team-game synergy. Ram could help you deal with enemy superior armor (more often this ability is used against heavies), if you have muni to strong off-map (il2 bombs of rocket strafe) or if you have decent AT support (couple of zis as example). This is brighter side (for allies) of this ability. But it also have darker side too - in most cases you or don't have decent AT support and off-map or don't have good chance to use it. In this case this ability becomes absolutely useless and don't help to player.

Ram could be non-brainer cheese when allies have muni and AT. It's absolutely different situations to lost your armor against flanking enemy (or when enemy armor blocking your rear route to escape) and against non-brainer frontal ramming with offmap. IMHO, i don't see how it could be tweaked to not become even more useless in 1vs1 (IMHO i don't think that RAM is good ability), it's better to replace it. Yes, if we replaced it, we will lost some part of initial soviet identity. But game already get rid off from some things like: 2-mens snipers, mortar for USF (was added), cap point was removed from SU heavies and e.t.c

I prefer to replace RAM and cap point by another ability that will be usefull for SU and don't be cheese for germans. Game always rewarding player who save his units, while RAM is suicidal ability that absolutely don't fit this gamedesign. Maybe replace it on some passive ability that similar to USF radionet, but exclusively for t-34 - the more t-34 you have the better it works. This will encourage players to not lose their T-34 (even if it relatively cheap) and try to save them.

not this again...


playercard pls

and use this thread:

https://www.coh2.org/topic/104219/t-34-ram

If anything Ram almost requires you to sacrifice a perfectly good tank to make good use of it.

Another topic "remove heavy Axis tanks counter" ?

Axis tanks have smoke/blitz = free escape. Use it.

Go ahead, nerf ram, but it should no longer completely disable T34 if it can't disable opposing tank anymore.

Another topic "remove heavy Axis tanks counter" ?

Axis tanks have smoke/blitz = free escape. Use it.

Stugs, Jp4, elef, KT, JT don't have blitz and free escape. Smoke doctrinal.

And again T-34 Ram not "only one SU way to counter axis heavies". No one delete from game Mark target, off-maps, heavies, su-85, zis-walls. I watched so many games in Dane youtube channel, in tournaments and on twitch. No one build T-34 with intention to use its Ram to deal with german armor. It was such tactic in old days when SU windustry commander wasn't rework. But now Players always build su-85. If you have 130 fuel and 250 muni on off-map what you will buy to counter tiger or KT- su-85 or t-34? I think answer is perfectly clear.

I am for removing RAM and changing 1st vet. I personally do not need kamikaze ability in the game one of the main mechanics of which is to obtain maximum veteranism and save the unit for as long as possible. At the moment, for the T-34 there is no place in the game except suicide + airborne commander. He needs the ability to accelerate at the 1st level of vet to compensate for the worst penetration, and perhaps some kind of special projectile: HEAT, sub-caliber, buckshot / shrapnel, fragmentation-smoke. Perhaps even with an increase in cost, at least the T-34 should be at the same utility / availability level with the M4 Sherman and Cromwell. Cheap T-34 is not a strong point, it only shows its sloppy performance.

Stugs, Jp4, elef, KT, JT don't have blitz and free escape. Smoke doctrinal.

And again T-34 Ram not "only one SU way to counter axis heavies". No one delete from game Mark target, off-maps, heavies, su-85, zis-walls.

Il2 bombs doctrinal.

Again, mark target doctrinal, off-maps doctrinal, heavies doctrinal, medium T-34/85 doctrinal. You cannot have it all.

Il2 bombs doctrinal.

Again, mark target doctrinal, off-maps doctrinal, heavies doctrinal, medium T-34/85 doctrinal. You cannot have it all.

If you have 130 fuel and 250 muni on off-map what you will buy to counter tiger or KT- su-85 or t-34?

Stugs, Jp4, elef, KT, JT don't have blitz and free escape. Smoke doctrinal.

And again T-34 Ram not "only one SU way to counter axis heavies". No one delete from game Mark target, off-maps, heavies, su-85, zis-walls. I watched so many games in Dane youtube channel, in tournaments and on twitch. No one build T-34 with intention to use its Ram to deal with german armor. It was such tactic in old days when SU windustry commander wasn't rework. But now Players always build su-85. If you have 130 fuel and 250 muni on off-map what you will buy to counter tiger or KT- su-85 or t-34? I think answer is perfectly clear.

Would you like to share with the class how you counter ele or JT with SU-85?

I would stand and say this is one of those "identity" things it should be worth fighting and working for (same with 2 man sniper "F").

IMO there's plenty of ways you can adjust the ability. It depends on how complex or simple you want to go.

For starters, as how the ability is now, heavy engine + immobilisation + main gun destroy damage should go away.
You can't rely on a 5%, 3% and 2% respectively on an ability which is used once or twice per game.

Stun duration could be based on penetration or not, as well as amount of HP the tank has. This doesn't account for engine dmg crit at all.


As far as experimental ideas goes:

1-
Ideally (but probable not possible) the crits should be dependent on the region you hit the tank AND based on HP. Frontal armor leads to turret lock down, blind, gunner injured, main gun destroyed and rear armor to engine based ones.

2-
Make it harder to use the ability while allowing other usages for ram.
Instead of been a 1 click button on the enemy tank, make it a skill shot. It increases the T34 speed in a straight line (could be used as a movement speed) and if it collides with a vehicle it procs the ram. After a set amount of time has passed, you get the overheat engine debuff. This means while you could use it as a pseudo blitz, if you don't get out fast enough you get a really slow tank.

3-
Allow for counterplay. If the T34 gets hit, it should slow down or even cancel the ram.

4-
Any amount of nerfs done to the ability should be compensated by making it less punishing for the one using it.
I would start by reducing the amount of dmg done to both the target and the T34 from 160 to 80. Criticals received by the T34 should be dependent on the % of HP pool after impact.
While not ideal to use the T85 with ram, this would make it better as it has a higher HP pool.

Added an option to the poll for those who want to keep status quo.

Would you like to share with the class how you counter ele or JT with SU-85?

1 ele of JT equal almost 2 su-85 in terms of resources. They are also doctrinal, that means you can have Mark target or your own doctrinal heavies (ISU-152 as example).

1 ele of JT equal almost 2 su-85 in terms of resources. They are also doctrinal, that means you can have Mark target or your own doctrinal heavies (ISU-152 as example).

Resources yes, performance no, it will still roflstomp them.

There are way to make the Ram a better designed ability and T-34s should have a different vet 1 bonus than cap.

Imo one of the issues is the synergy ram has with off maps. For that reason I would mind making "ram" a doctrinal ability. Then one could better design the synergy with off maps.

Before this thread is derailed I have to point that:

SU-85 are not meant to counter Elefant. It is the other way around.

It is like asking expecting to counter Obers with conscripts.

If you have 130 fuel and 250 muni on off-map what you will buy to counter tiger or KT- su-85 or t-34?

If i have Airborne doctrine, 125 muni and a T34 is far more reliable to get the kill. You will get Su85 to chip down or keep at bay the Tiger nevertheless but you will never have an Su85 if there is no vehicle threat at all.

IL2 bombing strike is far riskier to use against Tiger. KT is easier.

AT artillery offmap works better with T34s, ram or bodyblocking.


For the super heavy Ele/JT, T34 is a better option.

There are way to make the Ram a better designed ability and T-34s should have a different vet 1 bonus than cap.

Imo one of the issues is the synergy ram has with off maps. For that reason I would mind making "ram" a doctrinal ability. Then one could better design the synergy with off maps.

Ram without off map make non sense.

Better replace for smoke or speed. Or non doc T34/76->85 upgrade option.

Just make ram a specialist ability vs heavies

Then the counter would be to build mediums

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1. In game we have only rear and front parts. In 99% cases you use it against frontal armor. Because in 1vs1 and 2vs2 you really don't have place for deep flanking to try to use it against rear armor.

2. Sounds nice but, while don't give just blitz? Because if this ability become skillshot like tullips, it also need to reward player for skill. Increase stun or effects on enemy armor? It only make things worse than now.

3. Ram can't be used right now if t-34 have engine damage from faust. Any counterplay also mean that you should compensate it somehow?

4. Because armor or T34-76 irrelevant to axis mediums it means only one - you should use RAm with 100% healt to get maximum result? Right now Ram just attempt to get some money from almost dead tank, when you know it don't have chances to live.
I never saw how someone use T85 ram. Really. Every player try to save such good tank, even in most desperate situations.