*Suggestion* Rocket artillery

Introduction

So I would like to discuss the rocket artillery, ideas behind it and how it fits the game, from my perspective.

I dont want to point towards any specific factions, since all of them more or less can abuse rocket artillery and be abused by it. Some more, some less.

To make it simple, there are only two types of rocket artillery in the game, the first one is being Stuka and the second one the rest.

As I see it, rocket artillery is suppose to be:

• Area denial
  
• Blob punisher
  
• Defense breacher
  

Problem is it usually results in wipes, which cant be avoided. Even if dont blob, even if you retreat the second you hear the salvo, it still wipes, resulting only frustration among players.

Loosing high vetted unit to a lucky rocket which hits you in the middle of the squad on retreat, is painful. And it become even more painful, when you realize that loosing one or two vet units may result to a loss of the game itself.

Problems are less persistent in 1v1 but become more and more present in a teamgames.

Suggestion
Right now all rocket arty deals 80 damage on direct hit, meaning it will always kill a model if it hits.

My suggestion is simple - lowering its damage to be 70 or 75 on direct hit and maybe applying suppression just like panzerwerfer, but without pinning.

What it will change:
Full HP squads wont be one shotter, but would be left almost dead, anything shooting at them will almost instantly kill them.

Why I don't think it would make it weaker:

• Blobs will still be destroyed or left crippled to be finished off by other means + suppression would counter them even more.
  
• Support weapons would require to be pulled off to be healed or again face annihilation of anything attack them
  
• If any kind of unit, won't be fully healed it will be possible wiped just like before.
  
• Players will still be required to fully heal their squads, meaning you will be delaying your enemy
  

What improvements it will bring:

• No RNG wipes, if properly retreated your full HP squad won't die to random rocket.
  
• It will be more tactical, you would either have to fight the enemy before to lower HP of his squads before using arty or catch him on his retreat path.
  
• If a player still wants to play using rocket arty, he would have to build two of them and shoot both of them at the same time at the same place to wipe anything that has full HP. But this will come at the cost of population and resources
  
• No more RNG blaming if you get your stuff wiped, only you to be blamed. All risks are calculated and predictable.
  
• Instead of click and pray RNG, players would have to aim at retreat paths and look for momentum to use barrage.
  

---
And now stuka zu fuss.

Honestly I think its outdated badly. Its main balance comes from the hands of whom is using it. In right hands its the most OP arty in the game (shooting at retreat path) in wrong hands its easily avoidable and predictable.

I would rather see it shooting 3 rockets in the small circle, but its just my opinion. It feels like, originally this unit was created as a *cool feature*, rather then something that fits the game.

Nerfing rocket artillery means buff for forward reinforcing, and any faction with them gain better advantage.
In other word:
(-)Sov, Ost (They both rely on rocket arty to punish FHQ)
(+)Okw, Usf, Ukf (Except okw, the other two have FHQ but not stock rocket arty)

As current state, the EFA already get power creep by WFA, so I rather current rocket arty state.

I don't think this would solve much.
Just looking at the damage does not tell you much, you'd have to look at the AoE profile of the rockets. It does not help if the first rocket deals only 75 damage if the model likely receives the missing 5 damage anyway from another rocket.

Also I think the phrase that it 'always wipes' is an exaggeration. Apart from super close range Katys and maybe the Calliope, all rocket arty have decent delay to allow for dodges to not get wiped.

Introduction

So I would like to discuss the rocket artillery, ideas behind it and how it fits the game, from my perspective.

I dont want to point towards any specific factions, since all of them more or less can abuse rocket artillery and be abused by it. Some more, some less.

To make it simple, there are only two types of rocket artillery in the game, the first one is being Stuka and the second one the rest.

As I see it, rocket artillery is suppose to be:

• Area denial
  
• Blob punisher
  
• Defense breacher
  

Problem is it usually results in wipes, which cant be avoided. Even if dont blob, even if you retreat the second you hear the salvo, it still wipes, resulting only frustration among players.

Loosing high vetted unit to a lucky rocket which hits you in the middle of the squad on retreat, is painful. And it become even more painful, when you realize that loosing one or two vet units may result to a loss of the game itself.

Problems are less persistent in 1v1 but become more and more present in a teamgames.

Suggestion
Right now all rocket arty deals 80 damage on direct hit, meaning it will always kill a model if it hits.

My suggestion is simple - lowering its damage to be 70 or 75 on direct hit and maybe applying suppression just like panzerwerfer, but without pinning.

What it will change:
Full HP squads wont be one shotter, but would be left almost dead, anything shooting at them will almost instantly kill them.

Why I don't think it would make it weaker:

• Blobs will still be destroyed or left crippled to be finished off by other means + suppression would counter them even more.
  
• Support weapons would require to be pulled off to be healed or again face annihilation of anything attack them
  
• If any kind of unit, won't be fully healed it will be possible wiped just like before.
  
• Players will still be required to fully heal their squads, meaning you will be delaying your enemy
  

What improvements it will bring:

• No RNG wipes, if properly retreated your full HP squad won't die to random rocket.
  
• It will be more tactical, you would either have to fight the enemy before to lower HP of his squads before using arty or catch him on his retreat path.
  
• If a player still wants to play using rocket arty, he would have to build two of them and shoot both of them at the same time at the same place to wipe anything that has full HP. But this will come at the cost of population and resources
  
• No more RNG blaming if you get your stuff wiped, only you to be blamed. All risks are calculated and predictable.
  
• Instead of click and pray RNG, players would have to aim at retreat paths and look for momentum to use barrage.
  

---
And now stuka zu fuss.

Honestly I think its outdated badly. Its main balance comes from the hands of whom is using it. In right hands its the most OP arty in the game (shooting at retreat path) in wrong hands its easily avoidable and predictable.

I would rather see it shooting 3 rockets in the small circle, but its just my opinion. It feels like, originally this unit was created as a *cool feature*, rather then something that fits the game.

Nice first post.

Imo arty is fine. Removing every onuce of rng doesnt suit the game. this is what makes coh2 fun.

While its true, but I cant see the connection here. Since most of the time ppl retreat to FHQ already with wounded squads, meaning that if you try to attack FHQ after the retreat you will most likely wipe just as well.

True. But again, it may sound like this on paper, but in reality you would have much better chances of surviving, even with additional aoe damage. At very least even if it wont change much, it still would remove random full squad wipes at least from one rocket. Already some what improvement.

I agree that "always wipes" is a bit harsh. Still, maps are different, on minsk pocket its easier to dodge because of ranges, but on smaller maps its always mid to close range.

Also here is a test video, how it looks like with vannila and 75 damage

75 damage
Vannila damage

Katy in vannila had a bad rng or maybe I put it slightly farther, but aside from that, perfomance in general damage vise is pretty much the same.

Considering in real game there will be retreats and other jumpings around, 75 damage would be even a bit low, it might be 77-79 to make difference even less noticable.

But still in such case lucky one-shots already would be much less frequent.

If one want to avoid one volley wipes one should proably to limit the number of entities killed since it would be more consistent than reducing damage.

If one want to avoid one volley wipes one should proably to limit the number of entities killed since it would be more consistent than reducing damage.

I'm not sure, but I belive, then direct hits wont do damage over the kill limit. In general it would be a bigger nerf, since for example with limit of 75% full hp squad will most likely escape with 1 or 2 models having almost full HP.

With damage reduction even if volley itself wont kill, it still will deal enouth damage to chase or engage and finish the enemy squad.

they should also reduce sturmtiger ,churchill AVRE damage to >80
hate when it wiped my infantry on direct hit.

Sturmtiger isnt too bad, takes FOREVER to set up, AVRE has really short range. Still, single click wiping in a game designed around veterency is a bad design.

Sturmtiger isnt too bad, takes FOREVER to set up, AVRE has really short range. Still, single click wiping in a game designed around veterency is a bad design.

While its frustrating, its not RNG based and you are responsable for AVRE\Sturm wipes. They both has somewhat shortrange and you can see its comming. Exceptions - maps with sight blocks but again its lesser evil.

Same with howitzer, dont mind them, since they are static weapons and they eat a lot of pop-cap. And they are doc units after all.

Yep. I've got a whole different discussion for Howitzers, but Rocket Arty is the real problem child.

they should also reduce sturmtiger ,churchill AVRE damage to >80
hate when it wiped my infantry on direct hit.

I admire your sarcasm.