Raketenwerfers should not have retreat anymore.

i dont find a problem with the rak. after the camo/cloak nerf its less cheesy

i dont find a problem with the rak. after the camo/cloak nerf its less cheesy

there is no problem with rak.
this is the weekly cry about a unit thread

Funny that I never once said "rak OP", yet a bunch of people are piling on and strawmanning. This is the problem with balance section right here. If you don't want to read the post and instead want to resort to crying and trying to paint me as some allied fanboy, the don't post because it doesn't add anything to the discussion. Feel free to tell me why rak needs retreat and why it's not a stupid mechanic, if you can.

I don't think rak is OP, I think the ability to retreat makes it too hard to punish for being used stupidly or overly aggressively. Its actual anti tank performance, which hannibal went over statwise, is fine, it's just that retreat gives it license to be used like a 55 range infantry squad, which it shouldn't be.

The problem with giving it 1.25 target size is that when it gets wiped and recrewed by volks (or by allied infantry for that matter), that nerf is gone and its down to target size 1 or less. Its survivability should not be dependent on its RA because that will change eventually.

Funny that I never once said "rak OP", yet a bunch of people are piling on and strawmanning. This is the problem with balance section right here. If you don't want to read the post and instead want to resort to crying and trying to paint me as some allied fanboy, the don't post because it doesn't add anything to the discussion. Feel free to tell me why rak needs retreat and why it's not a stupid mechanic, if you can.

Cheers to that

It's easier for people to respond to their version of what you said, rather than your actual point. Suggesting a nerf of any kind automatically means you don't play that faction and that your on a crusade against it

If Rak needs a buff too compensate for losing retreat Im open to it, I just think AT guns being able to retreat from a tank is silly

its also silly that several tons heavy anti tank guns are being carried around the battlefield by 2 soldiers which simply grab and lift it like its a beer basket

being able to retreat is raks gimmick, deal with it

we all know the rant is about the raketen being able to retreat.
If all ATGs were able to retreat, this thread would not exist.

At least lets be honest about that.

I think he meant the volks shreck blob. 1 vollying mediums and single handidly shutting down all vehicle play vs okw and sniping models with shrecks, vetting insanely fast.

Glad that they are just a bad memory lol.

No I meant PF's, but I'm basically an idiot and remembered wrong, lol.

Pre-buff, every time I played as OKW against the Soviets, I would always see M3/Penals. Every. Time. And I really didn't have an answer for it early game. Didn't have an MG to suppress Penals, and the one Rak I could build would get eaten up by a circle-strafe M3 with a flamethrower, even with the retreat function. Best I could hope for is to stick the Rak inside a building and hope opposing player was stupid enough to drive his M3 near it.

I still see M3/Penal spam, but at least the Rak can handle the M3 a bit better. Penals are still a problem, but I just go for stall and flank points because I'm relatively sure they have fewer infantry units, and they don't have Maxims early game because they went for Penals.

Instead of bulging-vein induced rage when I see M3/Penals, it now elicits a beleaguered sigh.

No I meant PF's, but I'm basically an idiot and remembered wrong, lol.

Pre-buff, every time I played as OKW against the Soviets, I would always see M3/Penals. Every. Time. And I really didn't have an answer for it early game. Didn't have an MG to suppress Penals, and the one Rak I could build would get eaten up by a circle-strafe M3 with a flamethrower, even with the retreat function. Best I could hope for is to stick the Rak inside a building and hope opposing player was stupid enough to drive his M3 near it.

I still see M3/Penal spam, but at least the Rak can handle the M3 a bit better. Penals are still a problem, but I just go for stall and flank points because I'm relatively sure they have fewer infantry units, and they don't have Maxims early game because they went for Penals.

Instead of bulging-vein induced rage when I see M3/Penals, it now elicits a beleaguered sigh.

Yeah the clown car is less of an issue for okw now. The patch team did a good job overall to balance stuff out without making basicly one faction for both sides.

I dont recal seeing more then a single m3 per game. That's coming from 1v1. It already only has use for 1 or 2 minutes mostly. It counteracts okw's agressive starting power wich sov otherwise has trouble containing early on.

its also silly that several tons heavy anti tank guns are being carried around the battlefield by 2 soldiers which simply grab and lift it like its a beer basket

being able to retreat is raks gimmick, deal with it

Stop using "muh realism" as an argument for balance. It doesn't hold much sway in a game where tanks can take 4-8 penetrating shots from an ATG to die and engineers can just conjure bunkers, bofors, and flak guns out of thin air in the middle of a battlefield.

we all know the rant is about the raketen being able to retreat.
If all ATGs were able to retreat, this thread would not exist.

At least lets be honest about that.

Nope, if all ATGs could retreat, then all ATGs would be super cancerous and problematic. There's a good reason they can't, go back and read OP.

Stop using "muh realism" as an argument for balance. It doesn't hold much sway in a game where tanks can take 4-8 penetrating shots from an ATG to die and engineers can just conjure bunkers, bofors, and flak guns out of thin air in the middle of a battlefield.

Nope, if all ATGs could retreat, then all ATGs would be super cancerous and problematic. There's a good reason they can't, go back and read OP.

well, read the post i responded to and stop using "muh quoting out of context"

Raketenwerfers should not have retreat anymore

yes, they should.

UKF at guns shouldnt have sprint which cost nothing

Nope, if all ATGs could retreat, then all ATGs would be super cancerous and problematic. There's a good reason they can't, go back and read OP.

I dont need to, the thread topic is clear enough for anyone to understand.
Yet i repeat myself about this is just a rant against raketenwerfer. As it being the only one able to retreat, people lose their sh*t about it. The same thing happened with the raketen cloak and that feature was nerfed to be even worse than the SU doctrinal one.

This is not a balance thread, its a rant thread. Change my mind.

I dont need to, the thread topic is clear enough for anyone to understand.
Yet i repeat myself about this is just a rant against raketenwerfer. As it being the only one able to retreat, people lose their sh*t about it. The same thing happened with the raketen cloak and that feature was nerfed to be even worse than the SU doctrinal one.

This is not a balance thread, its a rant thread. Change my mind.

-Doesn't read OP
-Tries to summarize what OP is saying

Don't see a lot of high vet raks
See an awful lot of high vet paks and 6 pounders

raks always get wiped on retreat

-Doesn't read OP
-Tries to summarize what OP is saying

So, Is this your argument?

Having retreat on an AT gun is just a poor mechanic because unlike infantry squads or machine guns, it doesn't have to stay around on the field very long to do a significant amount of damage, especially when you have multiple and can get a volley or two off and retreat at 4-5 men still.

Well, why dont we then wait until tanks show up their ass and then we buy the ATGs, teleport them in their faces, instagib the poor fool and then i dont know, magically return the ATG to obvlivion and get refunded their worthy cost. Its absurd.

Thats not what really happens. In a real game you get ATGs before tanks arrive and place them in such a way they will stop overconfident vehicles, secure the retreat of other squads and even much more important, stay idle, like a lot of time and stay behind because ATGs are not ment to be exposed to direct small arms fire.

So, i can easily refute your point by saying, retreat of raketens is simply a design variation intended to make the unit worth to expose to riskier situations. Other ATGs are competitive without the need of taking so much risks. Examples be 17P or Pak40. The same logic is seen in every USF tank, having 0.75 moving acc modifier, instead of every axis tank being 0.50. Its a trade off, a variation. Without these the game is simply AoE WW2 version. Bland and boring.

What now? The thread is still a rant.

-Doesn't read OP
-Tries to summarize what OP is saying

it's literally the same stuff as ur old thread
https://www.coh2.org/topic/103793/why-does-rak-need-retreat

"I see no reason for it to have it anymore. It's got almost the same range as all the other AT guns, camo at vet1, and a 5-man crew to prevent it from getting instakilled by explosives (which now makes it almost impossible to grenade to death even retreat notwithstanding). Removing retreat would make people actually use it like an AT gun instead of just blobbing them up in groups of two or using it like an infantry squad with a giant AT rocket."

"No gunshield and 55 range.

/thread"

always same arguments