Then incorporate some of it into the base stats. It's that simple. All you keep thinking is the raw stats when I already mentioned in the 1st post veterancy can be adjusted so keep that it mind.
And nerfing the SU-85 to be more anti-heavy, sure, but that doesn't mean the SU-76 doesn't need a minor boost.
And for Doomlord, I have already mentioned the priority should be barrage and rotation. If speed needs to be left out, sure, but it shouldn't be as clunky as it is now for a LV.
That would make more sense. Many unit so far had their based stat buffed while keeping their veterancy bonus high ending up with OP performance once vetted. This even more important for unit with very low XP value like the SU-76.
Actually I would say that XP values, vet bonus and vet abilities has not been checked for year and has become a priority.
And the pumas stats are more than made up for by being able to use it aggressively. Despite its much higher pen have you ever seen an SU76 dive for rocket arty?
I am simply explaining the difference in the design between Puma and SU-76
The SU76 is defensive AT and support via barrage. Increasing its rotation isn't going to displace the T70 and make the new speedy SU76 meta but it might make it so someone, somewhere actually builds one. Even if only once.
I have little issue with making some of the vetted rotation available earlier although some acceleration might help the unit more. What I was objecting was making the unit faster than all Ostheer tank tank that would enable it to kite them
As for ost not being able to dive for it, it's not exactly going to be racking up the damage with its pen. There's nothing wrong with a defensive unit excelling in the defense. It would basicly be a less cancerous Scott, assuming someone builds one and manages to vet it.
It was always meant to be a multiple glass cannon. The grenadier of tanks if you will. It can do things well and from range but if your micro slips buh bye.
The problem is that unit is already cost efficient and buffing it because it is not "meta" simply leads to power creep. One should consider creating more room for it.
Buffing su76 is controversial imo. It is a neighbour of a really pretty piece of armour - t70. If you nerfed t70, su76 could be chosen over it. Because t70 in not luchs, and has some at and ai power, players won't be choosing su76. Also ostheer lights (222, halftracks, and even puma) have very little armour there is no need to built su76 (maybe against puma to have range advantage). t70 is basically a better option unless one buffs su76 to some extreme power level, which will be op. A difficult equation to solve to make su76 useful. I guess it should remain a fun unit for top players to experiment with. I still remember some really cool ways some better players used it against me with devastating results.
Buffing su76 is controversial imo. It is a neighbour of a really pretty piece of armour - t70. If you nerfed t70, su76 could be chosen over it. Because t70 in not luchs, and has some at and ai power, players won't be choosing su76. Also ostheer lights (222, halftracks, and even puma) have very little armour there is no need to built su76 (maybe against puma to have range advantage). t70 is basically a better option unless one buffs su76 to some extreme power level, which will be op. A difficult equation to solve to make su76 useful. I guess it should remain a fun unit for top players to experiment with. I still remember some really cool ways some better players used it against me with devastating results.
SU76 comes too late to counter lights because you first need to have the T70. It doesn't have the punch to seriously harm Axis mediums that come soon after.
Maybe move SU76 to HQ building once T1 or T2 are built so it can actually be an immediate counter to P2s and other axis lights.
SU76 comes too late to counter lights because you first need to have the T70. It doesn't have the punch to seriously harm Axis mediums that come soon after.
Maybe move SU76 to HQ building once T1 or T2 are built so it can actually be an immediate counter to P2s and other axis lights.
but...SU76 has far range pene from 160.
with 60 range. and fats reload and barrage. and super cheap.
what do u want more? 2 of them can be really really good mobile AT options until heavy hit the field...even then they wipe often teamweapons like hell
Better replace this unit with some new one. Suggested changes will do nothing
Great idea!
We're delegating you for a trip to Canada to relic studio, be sure to prepare a presentation on how they would need to create new assets and animations for a new unit for the game studio does not support for 4 years now.
Everyone knows this is MUCH easier and requires much less effort then changes to 3-4 stats.
I am simply explaining the difference in the design between Puma and SU-76
I have little issue with making some of the vetted rotation available earlier although some acceleration might help the unit more. What I was objecting was making the unit faster than all Ostheer tank tank that would enable it to kite them
The problem is that unit is already cost efficient and buffing it because it is not "meta" simply leads to power creep. One should consider creating more room for it.
Raising the skill ceiling isn't going to make the unit over the top. It's not a too notch unit and being able to maneuver a bit better won't over do it simply because it doesn't have a turret. It will be able to get on target easier and escape easier but that's the extent of it. It's not going to become meta and it's not going to become over top, just make a unit that nobody ever builds ever under any circumstance a little nicer to use if someone happens to misclick and make one.
but...SU76 has far range pene from 160.
with 60 range. and fats reload and barrage. and super cheap.
what do u want more? 2 of them can be really really good mobile AT options until heavy hit the field...even then they wipe often teamweapons like hell
I'm not saying the unit is terrible. I am saying that is currently doesn't fit in the Soviet roster at its current timing.
Soviets need the T70. At this point it's pretty much a mandatory unit. Because of Soviet T3 timing vs OKW Mech timing, you pretty much need an AT gun too first. After getting the AT gun and T70, the SU76 doesn't offer anything that you have not already covered.
VS Ostheer you really ought to be saving for medium armor after your T70 because because the performance of the SU76 against P4 just isn't enough to justify getting one (unlike say, getting 1 Stug G against allied mediums). Performance for cost itself is not bad, but it's in this spot where 1 SU76 is not enough and 2 is too big of an investment into fragile casemates that serve no purpose against premiums/heavies.
The only way I see the SU76 working is if you can get it early instead of having to invest in an AT gun. This way it has more time to fight against it's supposed targets like the P2, flak HTs, etc.
The only way I see the SU76 working is if you can get it early instead of having to invest in an AT gun.
If at gun didn't have the barrage people would pick su76 much more often. Or maybe su76 should get two more barrage shells and ZiS should lose two of them?
If su76 arrive earlier Then no one would be building p2 flak etc. This unit is so bad for its place that its hardly possible to do anything usefull out of it with stats changes. So stats changes isnt enough
Strongest option would be to replace su76 with shocks. AT partisans are also not bad for that t3 spot. But thats weaker variant.
As of su76 itself. This unit needs tools to stop mediums from chasing it. Maybe some crit shot that destroy main gun. AEC crit shot , shot on tracks etc. HP buff and mobility.
If at gun didn't have the barrage people would pick su76 much more often. Or maybe su76 should get two more barrage shells and ZiS should lose two of them?
But it does have barrage and its not going anywhere.
Also, I'll blow your mind with this, but:
If su76 arrive earlier Then no one would be building p2 flak etc. This unit is so bad for its place that its hardly possible to do anything usefull out of it with stats changes. So stats changes isnt enough
You mean like no one builds 222/251 or luchs vs brits?(except everyone does and somehow AEC is not an issue)
Strongest option would be to replace su76 with shocks. AT partisans are also not bad for that t3 spot. But thats weaker variant.
Going for that #1 prize on "most stupid suggestion" I see.
As of su76 itself. This unit needs tools to stop mediums from chasing it. Maybe some crit shot that destroy main gun. AEC crit shot , shot on tracks etc. HP buff and mobility.
That's... somewhat reasonable, but it does NOT need any durability buffs, mobility would go a long way tho, actually letting it escape situations all other lights escape with ease due to smoke or much higher mobility or both.
The nice thing about trying out a small mobility buff is that if it proves too much it can be reverted. It's not redesigning the wheel here with a laborious overhaul. It's sliding a few numbers.
as was said.
1. t70 is neccesary. To bounce back from disadvatageous start. And to counter obers etc.
2. fast transition into mediums is also necesary now. For several reasons.
= No place for su76 there, unless its buffed to smth very good to choose it over T4 units and upgrades.
But it does have barrage and its not going anywhere.
Also, I'll blow your mind with this, but:
I think ZiS barrage is just OP. With its price, 6 men and more than decent at capabilities, ZiS shouldn't have any barrage tbh (or maybe a really expensive one to make sure you can't spam it like now). Soviets should be forced into building mortars if they wanted indirect fire, not an at gun. A player should basically "risk" building an at gun that is dedicated to killing vehicles only. It shouldn't help you in infantry engagements (or destroy mgs or even at guns!) - that is breaking the core game "risk/reward/army composition" mechanics. Spending manpower on at guns should mean some disadvantage in infantry department if your opponent does not build a vehicle. Soviet faction continuously breaks this rule. In the past, when Soviet ZiS was significantly worse at dealing with vehicles, the barrage and larger crew made sense. Now it is just OP after the buffs to ZiS's at performance.
Coming back to Su76 - If ZiS didn't have the barrage, su76 could be viable as an at/ai platform. Players would choose it over ZiS for its barrage ability, mobility and at performance. They would be more willing to spend manpower and fuel on it. Since SU76 is the higher tech (and requires fuel) it is quite right to make sure it is significantly better than ZiS. Also ZiS now can counter everything. Most frustrating is its ability to kill at guns when supporting an armour push. Just deletes at guns or makes them lose so much hp that tanks can easily finish them off. If the barrage was on the su76 only, there would be some risk involved when barraging at guns for the su76, which is imo good. Su76 would be able to barrage mgs, mortars and infatry as intended. So I really feel that the barrage should be left on exclusively on su76 with a relatively attractive price. After nerfing it for ZiS (price increase, moving to vet 1), or removing it from ZiS, Su76 would become really viable next tier unit. Probably it would lead to 1 ZiS and 1 su76 on the field instead of double ZiS builds.
Zis barage is not OP. Not even slightest. Yesterday playing vs streamer (so can be verified) I faced many of it from a stolen zis . It was absolutely useless munition waste. While stuka had 70 kills. Whats op then? He only lost since he facked up all his tanks micro and stolen rak was too good.
Axis win majority games in tournaments = nothing they face is op.
No, that's crap, and a tournaments primarly goal is to rank good players, if one is better than another he will win no matter the faction, and since you are suppose to play both faction and win up to 3 games in BO5 in final, you might consider being good wih both to earn victory.
1. AT stats the same as soviet baby-at gun M42 have. It make SU-76 only good against light vehicles. You can't spam it to kill mediums.
2. Make "Siege mode". In this mode it have regular and smoke barrages. Can't shoot to armor. Can't move. Barrages is free. SU-76 could rotate in this mode, but speed is slower. Also need some time to exit from this mode. It's make it vulnerable to sudden attacks.
3. With level get increased amount of shells in barrage (like Ml-20 ability) and decreased cooldown of barrage.
SU-76 become more defense oriented unit. While T-70 is more aggressive unit.
Relic Entertainment
cblanco ★ 
보드카 중대 
VonManteuffel 
Heartless Jäger 
