noone ever does upgrade UC with flamer
Good luck playing brits on building heavy maps.
Ideas for UKF hotfix
21 May 2020, 15:01 PM
#61
Posts: 919
Good luck playing brits on building heavy maps.
21 May 2020, 15:03 PM
#62
Posts: 833
noone ever does upgrade UC with flamer
and how the fuck does usf have any tools to dislodge garrisons
UC is 260mp plus ammo cost and kubel is 210 xd
USF has mortar in T0
Let's unite the CoH2 community and make sure racism is
21 May 2020, 15:20 PM
#63
Posts: 919
USF has mortar in T0
Exactly
and mobile smoke on REs an an alternate option to storm buildings too (its a side tech, but you want to have grenades on many maps nonetheless).
21 May 2020, 15:29 PM
#64
Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1
Triple MG on engineers made sense when the MGs were stronger and RE didn't bleed as much.
Current bolstered three Vickers sapper squad (190muni) will do less DPS than double Bren (90muni) commandos that is a lot cheaper on tech costs.
VickersK just isn't worth it, maybe give it a button ability like guards. Then people would pay unlock price and call in price. But still sappers have the reduced movement speed that make them weak sauce
2 bre +1vickers have 21.4 DPS at max range
3 Vickers-K have 23 DPS at max range
2 Commandos sten have 24 so the difference is negligible
Tech does not say much but the unit cost is significant. And commandos are doctrinal not stock.
In addition Heavy sapper also get armor and repair speed with it.
As mentioned before the upgrade is badly designed not bad.
21 May 2020, 15:33 PM
#65
Posts: 3588 | Subs: 3
Actually me and vipper are in agreement a change to Bren profiles is a good idea
I’m curious as to why you think that makes your point more valid instead of less.
If I proposed something and vipper agreed, I’d immediately try to find what I did wrong.
21 May 2020, 15:39 PM
#66
Posts: 833
2 bre +1vickers have 21.4 DPS at max range
3 Vickers-K have 23 DPS at max range
2 Commandos sten have 24 so the difference is negligible
Tech does not say much but the unit cost is significant. And commandos are doctrinal not stock.
In addition Heavy sapper also get armor and repair speed with it.
As mentioned before the upgrade is badly designed not bad.
The argument is why should anyone pick special weapons doctrine. Triple Vickers sappers is clearly not one.
In case of doctrinal triple vk sappers they cost more than double the muni for less DPS even at their specialist range.
Movement nerf and unable to fire on move vs unit that can fire brens on the move.
Vk might be worth it on tommies if they didn't need two requirements for it. (Meanwhile svt cons, m1919s, StGIR look and laugh)
Let's unite the CoH2 community and make sure racism is
21 May 2020, 15:45 PM
#67
Posts: 833
I’m curious as to why you think that makes your point more valid instead of less.
If I proposed something and vipper agreed, I’d immediately try to find what I did wrong.
Bren with BAR / Stg profile would make more sense adding to units with cqb stens like officer or sappers. Rather than extreme long range and short range design we have now. No other faction has a mess with SMG and LMG in the same squad.
Then you could adjust and fix five man and influence that has with tommies, promoting more diverse build orders. Devs have also said five man and upgrade rework could be possible when I asked them. But it will take time.
Let's unite the CoH2 community and make sure racism is
21 May 2020, 16:27 PM
#68
Posts: 563
Yes they are and for some strange reason they can get 3 LMG.
Imo they should split into 2 different options:
1) Repair specialization for Anvil for cost 30 or not cost they get the repair bonus and maybe rifles instead of SMG.
2) Fighting specialization for Hammer where they get the armor and they heavy gammon bombs (without the engine damage/stun mechanism) and if needed better stens.
I like this idea. I also would extend it to give tommies something but i think that is a bit too shy idea to implement right now. With people thinking tommies overperform.
"Pain is almost euphoric sam!"
21 May 2020, 16:31 PM
#69
Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1
The argument is why should anyone pick special weapons doctrine. Triple Vickers sappers is clearly not one.
In case of doctrinal triple vk sappers they cost more than double the muni for less DPS even at their specialist range.
Movement nerf and unable to fire on move vs unit that can fire brens on the move.
Vk might be worth it on tommies if they didn't need two requirements for it. (Meanwhile svt cons, m1919s, StGIR look and laugh)
Triple vickers K heavy sappers are a weird unit and is not attractive enough for one to pick special weapons.
The ability to provide weapons for one's team is.
(Comparing them with bren commandos is a not the best of arguments, imo)
But I do no think that anyone tried to sell 3 VK Heavy sapper as selling point. Think the idea was how to better design the heavy sapper and losing the VK/moving penalty is a way.
21 May 2020, 17:09 PM
#70
Posts: 148
to make it clear, if you talk about balance outside 1v1/2v2 just shut up
there is no garrison heavy maps in the pool besides lost glider and arnhem which you should veto anyways
UC is basically a good LV with insane timing that costs no fuel and litterally noone uses flamer on it cuz Bren upgrade is better upgrade in every department. it ruins earlygame for okw and is just too good for the price, if you ahd to sacrifice your timings for using it it would be far better
kubel is 210 and UC is 260 plus ammo, fair price
USF mortar is shit and noone ever used it, idk how desperate you would have to be to actually build usf mortar
besides that ukf can have 6min AEC to dislodge any garrison
there is no garrison heavy maps in the pool besides lost glider and arnhem which you should veto anyways
UC is basically a good LV with insane timing that costs no fuel and litterally noone uses flamer on it cuz Bren upgrade is better upgrade in every department. it ruins earlygame for okw and is just too good for the price, if you ahd to sacrifice your timings for using it it would be far better
kubel is 210 and UC is 260 plus ammo, fair price
USF mortar is shit and noone ever used it, idk how desperate you would have to be to actually build usf mortar
besides that ukf can have 6min AEC to dislodge any garrison
Kimbo is so cute, isn't he?
21 May 2020, 17:45 PM
#71
Posts: 919
to make it clear, if you talk about balance outside 1v1/2v2 just shut up
there is no garrison heavy maps in the pool besides lost glider and arnhem which you should veto anyways
UC is basically a good LV with insane timing that costs no fuel and litterally noone uses flamer on it cuz Bren upgrade is better upgrade in every department. it ruins earlygame for okw and is just too good for the price, if you ahd to sacrifice your timings for using it it would be far better
kubel is 210 and UC is 260 plus ammo, fair price
USF mortar is shit and noone ever used it, idk how desperate you would have to be to actually build usf mortar
besides that ukf can have 6min AEC to dislodge any garrison
First of all this is your opinion, don't tell people who don't share it to shut up, if you want to be taken for serious futhermore.
Next there are some maps with key buildings in 1vs1 and 2vs2. If your opponent garrisons there, you'll have a hard time to dislodge them without Wasp.
I don't think that noone - like you said - uses WASP or USF mortar. Just don't say that because you don't use them. I'm using both and I have seen other players using them so Imo you argument is invalid already.
Last OKW has a very strong early game. In addition it has the Puppchen. What more do you need to counter UC?
21 May 2020, 17:55 PM
#72
Posts: 148
find me one game of top50 when wasp or usf mortar is used 
Kimbo is so cute, isn't he?
21 May 2020, 18:01 PM
#73
Posts: 2458 | Subs: 1
I don't think that noone - like you said - uses WASP or USF mortar.
You see WASP carrier like once every 15 games for UKF in 2v2. So yes that comes pretty close to "no one". Same for 1v1.
IDK about 3v3 and 4v4.
21 May 2020, 18:04 PM
#74
Posts: 148
You see WASP carrier like once every 15 games for UKF in 2v2. So yes that comes pretty close to "no one". Same for 1v1.
IDK about 3v3 and 4v4.
i have seen a wasp recently used by rank 500 or so XD, never see it besides that, and i play much and watch many streams
Kimbo is so cute, isn't he?
21 May 2020, 18:05 PM
#75
Posts: 148
Last OKW has a very strong early game. In addition it has the Puppchen. What more do you need to counter UC?
okw has strong early game only vs soviets
Kimbo is so cute, isn't he?
21 May 2020, 18:34 PM
#76
Posts: 919
find me one game of top50 when wasp or usf mortar is used
Okay got it. Your definition of noone is, when it get used next to never in top50 in 1vs1 mainly and maybe 2vs2. You are excluding a lot of players who bought and play this game. If that is the definition of noone you may be right.
21 May 2020, 18:35 PM
#77
Posts: 148
players, who dont know how the games work, cant speak about balance, cuz you dont consider many options, omegalol
i love this forums
i love this forums
Kimbo is so cute, isn't he?
21 May 2020, 18:38 PM
#78
Posts: 3166 | Subs: 6
to make it clear, if you talk about balance outside 1v1/2v2 just shut up
For the record, the time of only balancing the game around 1v1s is long gone. ~70% of the playerbase plays 3v3s and 4v4s and nowadays these modes are weighed significantly when making balance decisions.
21 May 2020, 19:38 PM
#79
Posts: 148
they shouldnt be
Kimbo is so cute, isn't he?
21 May 2020, 19:39 PM
#80
Posts: 919
players, who dont know how the games work, cant speak about balance, cuz you dont consider many options, omegalol
i love this forums
Wow, thats a kind one. I love this forums too, because there are people who seem to think that people outside top50 don't know how the game works. Thx in the name of all of them.
To be in the top50 is a lot more than knowing how the game works, it is about constantly playing and developing micro skills. It is about exploiting map design, about knowing the best spot for building your truck for example. I guess there are a lot of people above top50 that played strategy games as some of the top50 weren't even born. Because of kids and work they don't have the time for constant training. They play just a couple of games with friends once or twice a week. But they may know strategic/tactical basics a lot better becasue of their experience. Imagine, just for a moment, they might be able to understand how the game works. And then imagine they do have a right to play a fair and balanced game too. A good game isn't balanced in the Top50 only. Just consider this from time to time, it will help a lot. With best Regards
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