Medium tank: initial cost per faction

Jump back to quoted post16 May 2020, 13:34 PMT.R. Stormjäger

P4 rush fuel cost: 285
M4 rush fuel cost: 285

What’s the issue here?

Jump back to quoted post16 May 2020, 14:44 PMEsxile

How do you find 285?

I found 255 for the fastest Pz4 rush and 265 for the fastest M4 rush.

Jump back to quoted post16 May 2020, 14:51 PMT.R. Stormjäger

huh?

Ost T2 plus BP1 plus BP2 plus P4 = 285 fuel

USF T3 plus T4 plus M4 = 285 fuel

Only way you're getting 255 fuel for the P4 is if you get an Osttruppen doctrine supply drop and maybe 235 if you skip T2. But these are very specific tactics with huge drawbacks so there's really nothing to complain about.

Jump back to quoted post16 May 2020, 15:09 PMEsxile

You should check your numbers.

Full tech Ostheer into Pz4 is only 275 fuel I don't know how you find 285 for a rush, USF 1 tier tech full upgrade is already 305 fuel.
The only way for USF to reach that 285 fuel you mention is to build only an ambulance with 1 full tier. Good luck fighting Pzgren without BARs.

Jump back to quoted post16 May 2020, 15:20 PMT.R. Stormjäger

My numbers are just fine.

Ambulance is 10 fuel, as is the T1 Ostheer cost so it's likely they cancel eachother out. Even if they don't, the map control the ambulance gives with forward healing makes up for the fuel cost.

Grenade and rack are optional. I usually got weapon rack before the M4 and I got a lot of early map control which made up for the cost.

Jump back to quoted post16 May 2020, 15:36 PMEsxile

??

Please give me your numbers instead of a pointless argument about your skill.

Jump back to quoted post16 May 2020, 15:35 PMLago

This direct comparisons always miss one small but very important detail: your fuel income is dependent on map control.

USF and OKW have aggressive early games, so their tech tends to be a bit more expensive to offset that.

Jump back to quoted post16 May 2020, 15:39 PMT.R. Stormjäger

It's not arguments on skill, it's what Lago said about map control.

USF: T1/2 55F, T3 120F, M4A3 110F = 285F (295F w ambulance)
Ost: T2 20F, BP1 40F, BP2 105F, P4 120F = 285F (295 w Grens build)

Jump back to quoted post16 May 2020, 15:46 PMEsxile

You're forgetting the starting fuel. Wouldn't be a problem if OKW weren't starting the game with 10 fuel less.

Jump back to quoted post16 May 2020, 16:02 PMProtos Angelus

I'm not going to go into the fuel argument. It's pure numbers so it's directly comparable and debates are pointless. There are currently no factions that do not have a good early game. OST has ostruppen/granadiers/MGs/assaultgrens etc.
US has strong infanty with w.rack
Soviets can spam whatevs
OKW dominates early on smaller maps, close quarters maps
UKF also has good infantry and MGs with benefits in encampements and cover. The "strong early game" argumet is being less and less valid, especially if you include doctrines into the equation.
If you really want to counter early axis mediums, get one ranger squad, equip 3 zooks and make them run behind your infantry. The enemy will usually try to get in to kill your squads, snare it and let rangers to their work (or snare + AT):

1 rant from yesterdays game. I threw 13 snares in one game to a Panther, 0 of them snared. What is the snare chance from US infantry on Panther? Does anyone know?

Jump back to quoted post16 May 2020, 16:06 PMKoRneY

Snares will only activate if they bring the hp of their target below 75%

Jump back to quoted post16 May 2020, 16:02 PMProtos Angelus

I'm not going to go into the fuel argument. It's pure numbers so it's directly comparable and debates are pointless. There are currently no factions that do not have a good early game. OST has ostruppen/granadiers/MGs/assaultgrens etc.
US has strong infanty with w.rack
Soviets can spam whatevs
OKW dominates early on smaller maps, close quarters maps
UKF also has good infantry and MGs with benefits in encampements and cover. The "strong early game" argumet is being less and less valid, especially if you include doctrines into the equation.
If you really want to counter early axis mediums, get one ranger squad, equip 3 zooks and make them run behind your infantry. The enemy will usually try to get in to kill your squads, snare it and let rangers to their work (or snare + AT):

1 rant from yesterdays game. I threw 13 snares in one game to a Panther, 0 of them snared. What is the snare chance from US infantry on Panther? Does anyone know?

Jump back to quoted post16 May 2020, 16:34 PMProtos Angelus

So many hours in and didn't know that. Thanks! So bounces don't snare and snares hitting above 75% don't snare. Good to know.
However, I do know that I manage to snare full HP Panzer 4s. A snare hit on P4 full health will snare it 80% of the time (the damage will leave it at 540 hp which is about 85% if I'm not wrong).
Is there an explanation for that?