Pioneers after early game

Oh come on, Pios have satchel, can plant the AT mines. Can block an area with AI mines. And no good players makes them more than 2. OST AT mines one shots allied light vehicles that is 50/60/70/70 fuel and mp straight down the gutter.

Nothing needs to be changed for pios.

?????

Someone is confusing doctrinal abilities

Oh come on, Pios have satchel, can plant the AT mines. Can block an area with AI mines. And no good players makes them more than 2. OST AT mines one shots allied light vehicles that is 50/60/70/70 fuel and mp straight down the gutter.

Nothing needs to be changed for pios.

That's like saying riflemen have flamethrowers

They could at least put in pioneer's tooltip that they get increased site range, so new players know that they have it

one got buffed and works the other is forgotten and need to relay on doc crutches which is unhealthy

That's just not true at all. One got buffed because they was literally nothing special about it. Once demos were nerfed (rightfully) CEs had literally nothing special about them. And Pios got their own buff a while back for mg42 spotting

Did they remove pios ability to 1-shot light tanks? No, so suggesting they are "forgotten" is complete nonsense. The teller is the best mine any of the engineers can place

If it hard for CE to gain veterancy it harder for pios. What is suggested was giving bolt action rifles similar to CE that would even the odds.

Yes but pios have better passive capabilities. The Los alone is extremely powerful, even if passive. Both guys struggle for vet, but at least pios only redeeming trait isn't "they are cheap"

Pios are able to fight reasonably well initially (for cost) then transition into a passive power later and now both EFA can buy increased repair rates. Neither are supposed to replace Frontline troops and both are supposed to get their vet early on and you get what you get. The vet issue is for both of them and it's far from reasonable to give the one that already has more boons the ability to better itself (even if barely)

If pios are to get any changes it should be tied to tech, not a "just cause" buff.
I myself prefer the adding a man with bp3 route. CE could even follow suit via the mobilize reserves unlock.

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Your argument basically break down to CE are crap so Pioneers should also be crap and thus I do not agree with it.

Pioneer have a very hard time getting any veterancy past 5 minutes and that an issue irrelevant to CE performance. This is simply not a CE/Pioneers balance issue.

I have suggested how both units could improved to able able to gain veterancy.

They could at least put in pioneer's tooltip that they get increased site range, so new players know that they have it

yep - and probably many more unit descriptions should be patched. This alone would make a world of a difference.

Your argument basically break down to CE are crap so Pioneers should also be crap and thus I do not agree with it.

Pioneer have a very hard time getting any veterancy past 5 minutes and that an issue irrelevant to CE performance. This is simply not a CE/Pioneers balance issue.

I have suggested how both units could improved to able able to gain veterancy.

No my argument is that both CE and pios suffer from the same issue but pios already have a powerful boon to help mitigate this. Both additionally received the ability to pay and offset it slightly.
Pios at least CAN still be used on the front if needed due to scouting and the smg while not being spectacular, are enough to at least do work on weapon teams (enough to draw fire from other units and punish being ignored)

No my argument is that both CE and pios suffer from the same issue but pios already have a powerful boon to help mitigate this. Both additionally received the ability to pay and offset it slightly.
Pios at least CAN still be used on the front if needed due to scouting and the smg while not being spectacular, are enough to at least do work on weapon teams (enough to draw fire from other units and punish being ignored)

Ok they do not suck but you still missing the point. Taking about CE is rather irrelevant especially when WFA engineer are allot better at fighting.

Pioneer have a hard time vetting and that has nothing to do with how they compare with CE.

If in your opinion CE have the same issue you can start a different thread about it.

Either way the solutions I proposed include change that would help both pioneer and CE gaining veterancy.

Ok they do not suck but you still missing the point. Taking about CE is rather irrelevant especially when WFA engineer are allot better at fighting.

Pioneer have a hard time vetting and that has nothing to do with how they compare with CE.

If in your opinion CE have the same issue you can start a different thread about it.

Either way the solutions I proposed include change that would help both pioneer and CE gaining veterancy.

Wfa engineers were designed to do a lot of fighting. They are explicitly designed to do less engineering as well. They are meant to be on the front which is why they are better to attain vet and have combat related vet as well.

EFA engineer design is fairly black and white. They help in the early stages to fight and grab ground, they fall back and build bases once lines are secure, they prepare defenses and caches and then repair armour. They are not supposed to be in the front. Making it so pios can become budget defenders who can already make their own cover, but then see the enemy coming and get into cover and properly defend it will change they dynamic of ost play.

EFA engineers are meant to always be vulnerable and frankly shit in combat. This is very clearly represented in their stats and vet.

Shared vet is a route, vet from mines if possible is a route but changing their weapons to completely eliminate their weakness when they fall off while doing nothing about their strength in their element is bad business. They are not RE and they are not sturms. They are not supposed to be on the front without great risk.

Wfa engineers were designed to do a lot of fighting. They are explicitly designed to do less engineering as well. They are meant to be on the front which is why they are better to attain vet and have combat related vet as well.

Not Really WFA engineer are potent "engineer" units the only thing the miss over EFA enginner are the flamers.

EFA engineer design is fairly black and white. They help in the early stages to fight and grab ground, they fall back and build bases once lines are secure, they prepare defenses and caches and then repair armour. They are not supposed to be in the front. Making it so pios can become budget defenders who can already make their own cover, but then see the enemy coming and get into cover and properly defend it will change they dynamic of ost play.

EFA engineers are meant to always be vulnerable and frankly shit in combat. This is very clearly represented in their stats and vet.

Shared vet is a route, vet from mines if possible is a route but changing their weapons to completely eliminate their weakness when they fall off while doing nothing about their strength in their element is bad business. They are not RE and they are not sturms. They are not supposed to be on the front without great risk.

You are simply extenuating the effects of giving bolt action rifle once upgrade with flamer or sweepers would have.

Currently MP-40 do not work either with flamer since the DPS at range +20 plus minimal nor with sweepers with 3 MP40. Allowing to do a little damage at distance will not suddenly make them "front line infatry"

Currently MP-40 do not work either with flamer since the DPS at range +20 plus minimal nor with sweepers with 3 MP40.

Okay.

It's not the end of the world that pioneer SMGs are weak or useless at the range the flamer is best at. Many units have mismatched weapon ranges, especially when the weapon upgrade is much stronger than the base weapon.

Okay.

It's not the end of the world that pioneer SMGs are weak or useless at the range the flamer is best at. Many units have mismatched weapon ranges, especially when the weapon upgrade is much stronger than the base weapon.

No it is not the ned of the world on the other point remains that gaining vet with pioneers with pioneer and it should be fix.