Command Panther dead?
28 Apr 2020, 03:54 AM
#1
Posts: 187
A few years ago, Spec ops doc was soo real part of the meta for OKW and then they nerfed the Panther (like it can't use its own vet bonuses, general Panther nerfs of 2018 and locked it behind tech in 2019). Now that commander usage just vanished in 1v1s & 2v2s, however still seen in some numbers due to its Arty flare ability.
Maybe make the Command Panther great again? Like it comes in the late game and just like any other panthers it needs to face against alot of allied TDs & ATs. In most cases, it can not make an impact any better than a regular panther. Sure it got those aura that provides buffs to other vehicles but that is just not worth it to make a break through or being a specialist in killing tanks (main role). Especially, when your team is not in a great place and gettting bullied by allied TDs and Mediums like T-34/85s. Moreover, the Command panther just like regular Panther misses alot even when being 'stationary'.
Proposed chagnes to make it better are in the poll.
28 Apr 2020, 04:42 AM
#2
Posts: 3602 | Subs: 1
A few years ago, Spec ops doc was soo real part of the meta for OKW and then they nerfed the Panther (like it can't use its own vet bonuses, general Panther nerfs of 2018 and locked it behind tech in 2019). Now that commander usage just vanished in 1v1s & 2v2s, however still seen in some numbers due to its Arty flare ability.
Maybe make the Command Panther great again? Like it comes in the late game and just like any other panthers it needs to face against alot of allied TDs & ATs. In most cases, it can not make an impact any better than a regular panther. Sure it got those aura that provides buffs to other vehicles but that is just not worth it to make a break through or being a specialist in killing tanks (main role). Especially, when your team is not in a great place and gettting bullied by allied TDs and Mediums like T-34/85s. Moreover, the Command panther just like regular Panther misses alot even when being 'stationary'.
Proposed chagnes to make it better are in the poll.
You can't really make the unit stronger than it is - and we should get ride of the stupid flare which make it even easier to use to flank or snipe other tanks.
28 Apr 2020, 05:23 AM
#3
Posts: 951
The Panzer Commander would be a welcome addition to a doctrine that lacks artillery. However, I would argue that a better change would be to allow it to be deployed in tandem with the King Tiger.
NON VOS TURBATIS
28 Apr 2020, 05:36 AM
#4
Posts: 187
You can't really make the unit stronger than it is - and we should get ride of the stupid flare which make it even easier to use to flank or snipe other tanks.
Brits have it too and it has a bigger range so...
28 Apr 2020, 05:39 AM
#5
Posts: 187
The Panzer Commander would be a welcome addition to a doctrine that lacks artillery. However, I would argue that a better change would be to allow it to be deployed in tandem with the King Tiger.
Wouldn't that make KT OP due to the aurora bonuses from the Command PV?
However, I personally think Panzer Commander would be a better versatile option.
-Gives the doc an arty option like u mentioned,
- Makes the cmd PV a bit better from the accuracy bonus & extra sight!
Can't ask more.
28 Apr 2020, 05:40 AM
#6
Posts: 833
Command panther is not the victim of any major nerfs
It's the victim of the command tiger that just performs better
It's the victim of the command tiger that just performs better
Let's unite the CoH2 community and make sure racism is
28 Apr 2020, 06:26 AM
#7
Posts: 951
Wouldn't that make KT OP due to the aurora bonuses from the Command PV?
However, I personally think Panzer Commander would be a better versatile option.
-Gives the doc an arty option like u mentioned,
- Makes the cmd PV a bit better from the accuracy bonus & extra sight!
Can't ask more.
The Panzer Commander is the optimal buff.
I would argue that the KT would not be OP due to the aura bonuses. What made the Command Panther + KT combination so strong in the past was that the Command Panther didn’t require tech. You would amass a huge infantry army, ignore tech, stall for the Command Panther, and then slap down all your tech, finally topping off your army with the KT (since you had to go Schwerer HQ anyway, why not get the biggest tank).
With both tied to tech, I would argue that the issue is gone. It would be a powerful combination, no doubt. But as SuperHansFan mentioned, it’s simply been overshadowed by another unit.
NON VOS TURBATIS
28 Apr 2020, 06:30 AM
#8
Posts: 1289
Command panther is not the victim of any major nerfs
It's the victim of the command tiger that just performs better
100% agreed, just as the regular okw panther outdoes the jagdpzr 4.
28 Apr 2020, 07:05 AM
#9
Posts: 479
Reason why people don't use Spec Ops is because it doesn't have JLI,Falls, or Panzerfusiliers in it.
28 Apr 2020, 07:22 AM
#10
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
Reason why people don't use Spec Ops is because it doesn't have JLI,Falls, or Panzerfusiliers in it.
And with Tiger+PF in one doc, there is hardly a reason to ever use any other doc.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
28 Apr 2020, 09:56 AM
#11
Posts: 769 | Subs: 1
I've been surprised at how often I've seen the command panther in 2v2 lately. Maybe the flares have something to do with it? Good for teamwork. STG obers are probably somewhat popular now as well.
A bit offtopic, but I truly hate flare abilities that have no counter-play. They should really be deployed by a unit on the field that actually has to get close to the target, like with the Soviets. Failing that, they could maybe just increase vision of actual units in the area of effect rather than grant magic vision for rocket arty.
A bit offtopic, but I truly hate flare abilities that have no counter-play. They should really be deployed by a unit on the field that actually has to get close to the target, like with the Soviets. Failing that, they could maybe just increase vision of actual units in the area of effect rather than grant magic vision for rocket arty.
Some of my COH2 Guides:
| The COH2 System Performance Guide | The COH2 FAQ |
28 Apr 2020, 10:20 AM
#12
Posts: 177
The Command Panther
-costs more
-is tied to CP and commander
-is restricted to only one
With these in mind we need to ask ourselves:
-What can't normal panther win that CPanther can?
-What does CPanther lose against that normal wouldn't?
Another important question that we need to ask ourselves is: If I'm not picking the doc purely for the flare, why wouldn't I just get regular Panther, go Elite armor doctrine that gives me Panzer commander, HEAT and self repair in 1v1?
I personally think that in its current state and alternatives being what they are the CPanther just isn't good enough for 1v1. I can't speak on behalf of 4v4 etc where it could bring more synergies to the table.
-costs more
-is tied to CP and commander
-is restricted to only one
With these in mind we need to ask ourselves:
-What can't normal panther win that CPanther can?
-What does CPanther lose against that normal wouldn't?
Another important question that we need to ask ourselves is: If I'm not picking the doc purely for the flare, why wouldn't I just get regular Panther, go Elite armor doctrine that gives me Panzer commander, HEAT and self repair in 1v1?
I personally think that in its current state and alternatives being what they are the CPanther just isn't good enough for 1v1. I can't speak on behalf of 4v4 etc where it could bring more synergies to the table.
28 Apr 2020, 10:42 AM
#13
Posts: 3588 | Subs: 3
I think it needs lower vet requirements.
28 Apr 2020, 10:53 AM
#14
Posts: 956
I've been thinking about the Commanther lately and decided to revise my earlier statement. I don't really see it often in 4v4 either, unless I'm the one using it. Voted "no change" but only because the outcome I'd suggest isn't in there - It has a pretty mediocre performance compared to vetted Panthers at the same stars- slower movement, turret, reload speed and gets no self bonuses at all for 4 and 5, though its 5 aura is extremely powerful by improving infantry reload and accuracy near it. Its one big standard bonus is sight 50, but the cost alone more than covers that 'upgrade'. Won't address Coordinated Fire as that's a muni cost ability.That said, its low self-vet bonuses don't match up to the sheer difficulty in keeping it alive, often against vetted TDs and armor. Tbh, if you're in a situation with multiple Axis Panthers etc. benefiting from that aura, the game already is heavily against the Allied side.
tl;dr: I agree with Stormjaeger and think it could do with an easier vet progression
tl;dr: I agree with Stormjaeger and think it could do with an easier vet progression
For Italy! We have outfoxed the enemy once more!
28 Apr 2020, 13:06 PM
#15
Posts: 187
I think it needs lower vet requirements.
Yea it has unrealistic vet reqs, like in my 3 years of this game I may have seen one or two vet5 Cmd Panther lol
Never against one or got one to vet5 myself.
28 Apr 2020, 15:18 PM
#16
Posts: 320
For me the commander could be reworked in general.
This is the Elite Armor Doc for me. Everything that is all about the name.
And Spec Ops into
This would fit more thematically in my opinion.
Than you also do not need a Cmd Panther buff
This is the Elite Armor Doc for me. Everything that is all about the name.
And Spec Ops into
This would fit more thematically in my opinion.
Than you also do not need a Cmd Panther buff
28 Apr 2020, 15:36 PM
#17
Posts: 268
For me the commander could be reworked in general.
This is the Elite Armor Doc for me. Everything that is all about the name.
And Spec Ops into
This would fit more thematically in my opinion.
Than you also do not need a Cmd Panther buff
why dies goliath cost 5 cp here?
It normally 0 cp
28 Apr 2020, 17:25 PM
#18
Posts: 5279
Brits have it too and it has a bigger range so...
Which Brit commander has a flare that costs the se as a recon plane with none of the drawbacks that allow you to see any specific thing you want upto and including the enemy base if you so please?
#stalinwept
28 Apr 2020, 17:45 PM
#19
Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2
You will never have mark vehicle + heat shells on the same commander.
My controls weren't working
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
28 Apr 2020, 17:51 PM
#20
Posts: 4183 | Subs: 4
You will never have mark vehicle + heat shells on the same commander.
Coordinated fire is "ok". Mark target is far superior and in better doctrines to boot.
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