Why on earth do sections need 50% moving acc? Seriously.

Also this has now derailed far enough into personal insults.

Clear that stuff up via PM

-> back to topic

You do not need to own a unit to see something is wrong with it.
Nobody needed OKW to find out that the JLI were OP after they buffed them beginning of 2019. It's more difficult, but 100% doable, even if you want to deny it.

I agree with incendiary rounds that 50% moving acc for sections is a travesty.

I disagree with him making suggestions for balance changes for a faction he doesn’t own.

My position is valid.

Oh ofc I agree totally. You can protest all you want. I got UKF as a gift and I happen to like them personally but not my fav faction. And also this is not the same UKF it was when it was released so that kinda messes up his argument even more.

But making threads and posts and comments about UKF OP when he never even used a single unit? That seems absurd to me.

While it's not "the same UKF" as was released, in its current state, UKF is undeniably the 'worst designed' faction in the game; relying on staying stationary (cover bonus), relying on camping (emplacements), missing core tools (mobile mortar, mainline snare, non-UC garrison clearing, etc.), and just generally filled with "exception"-type units.

Then there are core units, like the IS, are being forced into a position where they have literally dozens of possible permutations/roles, but aren't seen as "overloaded", whereas a unit like OKW's SturmPio is seen as "overloaded" because they have about 3 roles (repair, sweep, CQC).

In general, you don't need to play UKF to notice these things; so making threads about them is entirely valid.

Just as an example, this is the list of all the possible stats IS' can be in - and they're not exclusive states, so many of them can be combined:

Bolstered?
In Cover?
Single Weapon upgrades? (LMG, Piat, etc.)
Dual Weapon upgrades? (2x LMG, 2x Piat, LMG + Piat, etc.)
Pyro upgrade? (LOS, Arty, smoke) -> Gives 2 abilities (arty or smoke)
Medic upgrade? -> Gives passive AoE healing
Vet level?
Vet 1 and in cover? (more LOS)
Grenades unlocked? -> Gives two grenade types (Mills and Gammon)

Adv. Emplacement Doc? -> "Defensive Operations", Can repair, build emplacements, etc.
Mobile Assault Doc? -> "Advanced Cover Bonus", no 'out-of-cover' penalties, bigger 'in-cover' bonus
Commando Doc? -> "Assault", increased accuracy and movement speed

You do not need to own a unit to see something is wrong with it.
Nobody needed OKW to find out that the JLI were OP after they buffed them beginning of 2019. It's more difficult, but 100% doable, even if you want to deny it.

I am not denying it.
But having some very obvious OP units that really should not be performing the way they are is not the same as some maybe more subtle balance details.
I would much rather have assault IS nerfed because those are really powerful in my experience on some maps. They have insane dps even with no upgrade.
That dps is very noticeable when you play them and against them.
I don't find that to be the case with IS in every situation.

And also I don't disagree that IS are over performing at the moment. But the way he puts it it feels like they are unbeatable.
He was predicting that they are going to blob IS and win the whole Cup. Then it didn't happen the way he thought it would happen. So he started with 'grens are useless' and people used grens too. Then IS did not win the cup in the end and he continues to talk about how they are a win all unit which they most certainly are not.

Ofc you can spot a balance issue while not playing a unit. But in a game where tactics and approaches play a large role there can be bias to his conclusions. This is only logical. Don't need knowledge of the game to know that you can't purely balance only by playing against them and probably most games are from OST perspective anyway.

But in the end I trust the balance team and every mistake that they make they will try to fix it as best as they can. They are not trying to kill his beloved faction (I hope).


And in the end I am looking at the ladders top 10 and Asha has a +49 streak with OST. You mean to tell me he never faced UKF once and that is the reason he has a big streak? Ofc not everyone is as hood as top10 but I am just pointing out that sometimes it may be the player that is the issue and only playing against a unit is not a good way to spot issues in the balance.

I agree with incendiary rounds that 50% moving acc for sections is a travesty.

I disagree with him making suggestions for balance changes for a faction he doesn’t own.

My position is valid.

That's pretty much self-contradictory but then again that's not my cup of tea. As long as he makes a reasonable point, he can post whatever he wants.

I have not played enough with and against Brits lately to have a final opinion of IS. From what I saw on Twitch they seemed to be quite strong, while in the tourney Brits seemed not to be a big issue. But this probably means only little, many players stick with what they know for the tournament, and the Twitch streams were mostly team games were things get a bit wild from time to time.

Patch is now two weeks old. If anyone has some real game data this would help a great deal.

While it's not "the same UKF" as was released, in its current state, UKF is undeniably the 'worst designed' faction in the game; relying on staying stationary (cover bonus), relying on camping (emplacements), missing core tools (mobile mortar, mainline snare, non-UC garrison clearing, etc.), and just generally filled with "exception"-type units.

Then there are core units, like the IS, are being forced into a position where they have literally dozens of possible permutations/roles, but aren't seen as "overloaded", whereas a unit like OKW's SturmPio is seen as "overloaded" because they have about 3 roles (repair, sweep, CQC).

In general, you don't need to play UKF to notice these things; so making threads about them is entirely valid.

Just as an example, this is the list of all the possible stats IS' can be in - and they're not exclusive states, so many of them can be combined:

Bolstered?
In Cover?
Single Weapon upgrades? (LMG, Piat, etc.)
Dual Weapon upgrades? (2x LMG, 2x Piat, LMG + Piat, etc.)
Pyro upgrade? (LOS, Arty, smoke) -> Gives 2 abilities (arty or smoke)
Medic upgrade? -> Gives passive AoE healing
Vet level?
Vet 1 and in cover? (more LOS)
Grenades unlocked? -> Gives two grenade types (Mills and Gammon)

Adv. Emplacement Doc? -> "Defensive Operations", Can repair, build emplacements, etc.
Mobile Assault Doc? -> "Advanced Cover Bonus", no 'out-of-cover' penalties, bigger 'in-cover' bonus
Commando Doc? -> "Assault", increased accuracy and movement speed

I agree. UKF doesn't seem they were designed to win by pushing but by stalling and defending key points of the map. That is why mortar/bofors/AT can't move, inf gets awarded for being in cover and punished when they push (out of cover) and they can't clear structures easy because they are not supposed to push easy (I guess). UKF is like tower defense lol. But now the towers are not that strong so they are only left with IS to do the lifting. A turtle faction was forced to attack like other factions and they were not made to do that i guess.


Ofc I may be wrong which is also fine

I would much rather have assault IS nerfed because those are really powerful in my experience on some maps. They have insane dps even with no upgrade.
That dps is very noticeable when you play them and against them.

This is true they shit on every axis close unit.
there is no counter to them early game. only Pgrens have a chance against them.

This is true they shit on every axis close unit.
there is no counter to them early game. only Pgrens have a chance against them.

Yep. Like early shock troops but not as tanky. After you are done with your opponent in 2v2+ you can just go help other players win their engagements. Wipe squads/MGs really fast.

+100 The Brits were like 100% a cheese faction at release. Sim city, crazy brit blobs, crushwells, insta kill centaur in buildings, etc. This is why I didn't buy it.

I hoped you didn't bought USF and OKW which were arguably worst (USF in 1v1 and OKW in anything from 2v2 to 4v4)

I hoped you didn't bought USF and OKW which were arguably worst (USF in 1v1 and OKW in anything from 2v2 to 4v4)

Thing is literally EVERYTHING in the Brits are cheese. USF and OKW can certain units u can abuse no doubt about it, even the EFA factions but EFA has the least cancer so they're the lesser of the evils.

Thing is literally EVERYTHING in the Brits are cheese. USF and OKW can certain units u can abuse no doubt about it, even the EFA factions but EFA has the least cancer so they're the lesser of the evils.

USF were a 1 type army, Rifles.
OKW was an even worst version of UKF with the sole exception of having crappy offmap.

I'm just saying that i don't buy that whole thing of not getting UKF IF you also bought OKW or USF near release.

Ive explained why sections are stupid in Orangepests thread about buffing grens. You can read it there and if someone disagrees can say that

stats aside, do people feel that sections are kinda over performing with the way they are now? In 2v2's they certainly feel feel that way, brits are the most frustrating faction for me to play against.

I have not played enough with and against Brits lately to have a final opinion of IS.

That's what Storm was saying about i. Rounds. If he doesn't own the Brits, then he's most likely never played them at all

stats aside, do people feel that sections are kinda over performing with the way they are now? In 2v2's they certainly feel feel that way, brits are the most frustrating faction for me to play against.

In 2v2 I'm really not sure yet. This section spam strat can be annoying af for sure -especially as OKW- but wasn't that always the case? Show Spoiler

I feel this spam strat wouldve been the exact same before the patch in teamgames, but many people just didnt play brits cuz they were influenced by this "brits are trash" mainstream which mainly referred to 1v1 only. In the larger teammodes brits feel exactly the same like before.. good infantry but absolutely trash tools. Especially the horrendous indirect fire makes them "struggle" against static playstyles on thin maps.


Did these section changes make them OP in 1v1? Maybe. I wouldn't have touched sections and "buffed" brits indirect fire instead, but that wouldn't really have helped 1v1 players... the absolute main reason for these section buffs were to make a comeback for brits in the 1v1 scene.

stats aside, do people feel that sections are kinda over performing with the way they are now? In 2v2's they certainly feel feel that way, brits are the most frustrating faction for me to play against.

in 1vs1 Brit gotta spear out to capture the map, in 2vs2 they straight up just moving 2,3 infantry sections together turning them into ~1 burst 1 model ( almost ), also it's very hard to kill retreating IS with bolt action rifle or even G43 / LMG42 compare to kill retreat Rifleman / Penal / Conscript / Guard / Ranger ? ( that's how I feel, me and my mate usually joke about bulletproof IS retreat )

Yes, Grenadier can do the same, same for Volks and Rifleman but right now if you compare mainlain infantry that move as a group of 3 then I fear: Infantry sections > Rifleman > Volksgrenadier > Grenadier > Conscript

At least that's how I feel.

P/S: I feel like in previous patch the Infantry Section is perfect: not too crazy outside out of cover but ain't no pushover if they are in cover. I got no complained with this patch except for IR HT nerf ( understandable about the IR HT bug ) and IS buff

Seems like a lot of people in this thread are nostalgic of the times pre-winter balance patch when UKF was a joke to play.

Infantry sections are fine now. Its bolster that needs an adjustment. Prepatch infantry sections were a joke, lets not return to those times.

Seems like a lot of people in this thread are nostalgic of the times pre-winter balance patch when UKF was a joke to play.

Infantry sections are fine now. Its bolster that needs an adjustment. Prepatch infantry sections were a joke, lets not return to those times.

Where's your playercard? How can anyone trust someone who thinks 4man sections are unusable right now. Then how the fuck does Ostheer use grens?

This is true they shit on every axis close unit.
there is no counter to them early game. only Pgrens have a chance against them.

Do you think Assault grens or Assault engineers are OP too? Because Assault sections had their stats pretty much mirrored with those two units.

Do you think Assault grens or Assault engineers are OP too? Because Assault sections had their stats pretty much mirrored with those two units.

It's a l2p issue. Assault grens take a particular playstyle to counter (always keeping your units together and avoiding 1 on 1 engaments). Assault tommies are the same; axis players just need to catch up on how to deal with them.