High Skill USF gameplay is just so micro intensive

Actually in the very top, top 50 players, USF is the hardest to micro. Below rank 300, USF is easy mode. It's a weird dynamic.

Actually in the very top, top 50 players, USF is the hardest to micro. Below rank 300, USF is easy mode. It's a weird dynamic.

That's because rifles, while strong, aren't exactly super hard to counter or apply attrition to, at least before they have 2x bars.

Noobs don't know how to deal with anything that beats grenadiers and high players know where HMG button is.

In German it consists of 3 words. "Zusammenarbeit" = "Togetherwork" xD

Is this a troll thread?

It's some weird combination of complaint and pride post. If you zoom into the picture, you'll see that both Blackdream and his teammate won their side, have both fuels, and two VP's. The other team decides their only chance is to throw it all on one side, and it happened to be Blackdream's side. Their opponents had a normal number of riflemen (3 rifles each).

The executive summary is:

I played a random against a team.
It started out a baby-seal-clubbing, but then they doubled my side.
It took about 10-15 minuted to get a Walking-stuka and finish the clubbing.
They whined because they weren't happy.
I wasn't happy either, so I decided to create a balance thread. I made sarcastic comments about USF player's skill level and micro, since their five units clearly are less taxing to micro than my four, and the fact that I mostly see USF blobs has nothing to do with me playing mostly OKW.

There was one interesting comment in the thread. It came from NS Aerafield in Post #63, but nobody took the bait to discuss.

Because CoH2 doesn't reward been able to multitask different engagements, been able to use units abilities and dodging offmaps and grenades.

Sigh again. This is only because all u guys know how to play CoH2 extensively and know almost nothing from the other games.

If anything, theoretically CoH2 ought to be the apm/keyboard spamming, caveman on speed, micro focused game because there is so little in terms of macro. The only real way to increase your rate of scarce resources besides caches is to fight and micro better, which leads to capping and engagement efficiency advantages.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought it was the case for games like SC2, AOE2, and Supreme Commander (I've only dabbled in Supcom and AOE2) that more stuff > less stuff generally speaking until the high level by which everyone already has the prerequisite macro and micro becomes the difference maker. I think on balance there has to be less overall gamestate factors to keep track of in coh2, but COH2's focuses on unit control and positioning to a much larger degree than many other traditional rts games in the genre.

Being able to multitask is one of the greater skills this game forces you to have. OT, 2v2s in every rts is the same way if both player suddenly jump on you. THats all ive seen in this vid.

If anything, theoretically CoH2 ought to be the apm/keyboard spamming, caveman on speed, micro focused game because there is so little in terms of macro. The only real way to increase your rate of scarce resources besides caches is to fight and micro better, which leads to capping and engagement efficiency advantages.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought it was the case for games like SC2, AOE2, and Supreme Commander (I've only dabbled in Supcom and AOE2) that more stuff > less stuff generally speaking until the high level by which everyone already has the prerequisite macro and micro becomes the difference maker. I think on balance there has to be less overall gamestate factors to keep track of in coh2, but COH2's focuses on unit control and positioning to a much larger degree than many other traditional rts games in the genre.

You are correct about CoH2. It's exactly like that. But even when focused on micro, the skill ceiling is low to perform well cause a fewer amount of correct decisions trump plenty of avg ones. While blobbing/spamming can be punished, it can be effective till really high level of play with a low mechanic requirement. You can play META or one style only without altering any factor on ANY MAP and still succeed despite there been better alternatives.

I will talk only about high level of play, cause at lower than than, anything is viable.

Yes, if you can out-macro from 5 mins into the game, you can roflstomp anyone. At high and equal skill level that doesn't cut it and this is probably the pre conceptions most people get out of those games.

SC2: imagine "thinking" that position doesn't matter. GL defending because u didn't position correctly a Zealot to block any ling ran towards your natural. Or what is mech siege tank positioning. U didnt had Archons in the front protecting from baneling bust, goodbye army.
One aspect that doesn't play as much in CoH2 compared to SC2 is scouting, mindgames and build order/tech. CoH has a more natural flow on the combat aspect (slower, back n forth) compared to SC2 which can be more explosive.

AoE2: i'm sure most people impression comes from casual "no rush" 200 army fighting head on. Early mid game most of the time there's lots of micro (small) aggression and fights of just a couple of units while trying to boom as much as possible behind it.
While there's less room for combat micro (outside of kitting, splitting and focusing) if you don't make intelligent use of positioning and terrain (elevation) you will get screwed pretty much.
On a colourful note, while here on CoH it's rare and most people consider cheese to surround unit with sandbag/tank trap, fast walling villagers to protect them from harrasing units is common on high level games.

Because CoH2 doesn't reward been able to multitask different engagements, been able to use units abilities and dodging offmaps and grenades.

Sigh again. This is only because all u guys know how to play CoH2 extensively and know almost nothing from the other games.

Agreeing again with you. I have playted/still play other RTS (I just bought AoM ED on steam) and i must say that each game teaches you something useful. I Played also MOBAS/Simulation RTS/Old RTS (i started with C&C at 5yo man!)
It is truth that CoH2 is not as demanding as other RTS but IMO it balances well strategy and action

Fuzzi, DaPopeCoH, Zeva the angry Dutchman, JaeForJett (50+ with EF factions), Tightrope (40-56ish), TwistedTootsy (non usf), borobadger (40ish), Tiefflieger, Finnded, etc

Some of them have have 20ish ranks with some factions, but I think if they have 2 50ish ranks they qualify.

Now you can say they’re not well known, in which case I’d say that’s not up to you to decide since you don’t play 1s.

None of these players are really known for their skill though. Tootsy is known for USF cheese (and hes good at USF). He's not at all known for his non USF skill. DaPopeCoH and tightrope are known because of their streams and youtube, not really for their skill. I have rank 50+ EF, but, honestly, that's because I use those factions to troll around and have fun - I was top 10 with them when I grinded them and really tried. Finndeed, when he was known for his skill, was top 20ish too I think.

I get that he asked a question and that you answered it, but I think you avoided his point entirely. Top 50 isn't that good, frankly. A lot of basic engagement errors until top 20 on the ladder. Being able to blob and make a top ~50 rank honestly says more about the ladder than it does about balance or the game in my opinion.

None of these players are really known for their skill though. Tootsy is known for USF cheese (and hes good at USF). He's not at all known for his non USF skill. DaPopeCoH and tightrope are known because of their streams and youtube, not really for their skill. I have rank 50+ EF, but, honestly, that's because I use those factions to troll around and have fun - I was top 10 with them when I grinded them and really tried. Finndeed, when he was known for his skill, was top 20ish too I think.

I get that he asked a question and that you answered it, but I think you avoided his point entirely. Top 50 isn't that good, frankly. A lot of basic engagement errors until top 20 on the ladder. Being able to blob and make a top ~50 rank honestly says more about the ladder than it does about balance or the game in my opinion.

Do you think there is that much room for unit stacked on other unit, textbook blobbing when you're speaking about tryhard top 20 matches or tournament play? When I watch large tournament casts I can't say I see that much blobbing in its exaggerated, complained about sense and theoretically competitors would employ what they believe to be optimal strategies.

Do you think there is that much room for unit stacked on other unit, textbook blobbing when you're speaking about tryhard top 20 matches or tournament play? When I watch large tournament casts I can't say I see that much blobbing in its exaggerated, complained about sense and theoretically competitors would employ what they believe to be optimal strategies.

There's a problem with semantics and interpretation.

People will call spam to 2 snipers.
3 Maxim is spam, but not might call it spam if they see 2 MG42 and one more captured MG.
2 AT guns is a pak wall.

There's little benefit in stacking purposely models on top of each other cause the smallest AoE will wipe several squads. In other games this helps because you are reducing the amount of units you can target at the same time (say ranged units vs melee in AoE2/WC3 or mutalisk stacks in SC2).


Now, there's no science in attacking with superior numbers. Why should you try to fight in equal conditions? If i bring 4 units against your 2, it's more than likely that i will force a retreat on your 2 units and could possible be able to wipe one or both squads.

If you want a manual of "blob/spam" game take a look at this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L7XQJ-t0mJo

...honestly says more about the ladder than it does about balance or the game in my opinion.

That moment when you return from a hiatus with a partner and you lose your first game but still gain more ranks than you used to be.

This was a couple years ago.

I really think that bigger AoEs will do the trick. Reduce the overall damage if you want, al mortars will become less rng based though but you could increase the AoE and also have really low far damages.

As an example: (I dont really know the numbers, im just making them up)
Old mortar AoE:
Radius: 0.5/1/1.5
Dmg: 40/20/10

New mortar AoE:
Radius: 0.5/5/15
Dmg:40/10/5

A blob will suffer the effect from R:5/10 Dmg and to a minimum of 5 to each model.

I really think that bigger AoEs will do the trick. Reduce the overall damage if you want, al mortars will become less rng based though but you could increase the AoE and also have really low far damages.

As an example: (I dont really know the numbers, im just making them up)
Old mortar AoE:
Radius: 0.5/1/1.5
Dmg: 40/20/10

New mortar AoE:
Radius: 0.5/5/15
Dmg:40/10/5

A blob will suffer the effect from R:5/10 Dmg and to a minimum of 5 to each model.

15 radius?

Do u know B4 AOE radius is 10?

15 radius?

Do u know B4 AOE radius is 10?

lul

@Jae For Jett you've nailed what I've meant, I couldn't sum it up better myself.

I really think that bigger AoEs will do the trick. Reduce the overall damage if you want, al mortars will become less rng based though but you could increase the AoE and also have really low far damages.

As an example: (I dont really know the numbers, im just making them up)
Old mortar AoE:
Radius: 0.5/1/1.5
Dmg: 40/20/10

New mortar AoE:
Radius: 0.5/5/15
Dmg:40/10/5

A blob will suffer the effect from R:5/10 Dmg and to a minimum of 5 to each model.

Or we can do nothing, because there isn't a problem.
If you can't deal with blob, its on you, you don't need safe space units and handicaps for strats that are easily counterable as it is.

15 radius?

Do u know B4 AOE radius is 10?

What if the B4 has 10 or 100 AoE, my point was big AoE with minimum damage.
I am not on the balance team so spare the technical details to them.

People are entitled to play the game any way they like. If they win, regardless of tactic, they have capitalized on what works and are therefore great players. End of story. To call top 50 players “not that good/skilled” but only top 10 are “good/skilled” is quite ridiculous. I’m dread the day Olympic gold medalists take it to the next level and call themselves mediocre and therefore everybody else SUCK.

Stop telling others how to play or claim that they are ruining the game because you don’t approve of the tactic. That is scrub mentality.

You just said that you won the game... so evidently the strat doesn't in fact work and anti blobbing tools are working fine.

This exactly.

This is the best thing ive ever seen