I am certain that many here already have heard my thoughts on the MG34.
I would like to request that it be examined for possible buffs to its suppression and/or damage. Statistically it is the worst out of all HMGs in the game. Its inherent poor state in both discourages the use of MGs to secure sectors or worse perform badly at stopping VP caps/flanks. I would also argue that by having such poor performance, it indirectly encourages infantry blobbing though the state of OKW blobs are a matter for another topic entirely.
(H)MG34
7 Apr 2020, 19:16 PM
#1
Posts: 956
For Italy! We have outfoxed the enemy once more!
7 Apr 2020, 19:24 PM
#2
Posts: 3166 | Subs: 6
It has very good suppression, only slightly worse than the HMG 42. IIRC it suppresses squads at medium range in neutral cover in ~1,3s while the HMG 42 does it in ~1.2s.
It has lackluster damage but that's not what you get an HMG for anyway.
It has lackluster damage but that's not what you get an HMG for anyway.
7 Apr 2020, 19:27 PM
#3
Posts: 4183 | Subs: 4
It has lackluster damage but that's not what you get an HMG for anyway.
This is a cop out answer. MG damage matters when green cover actually decides to work and stops suppression. You cannot dislodge units from safety if you don't deal damage. The vickers gets bonus suppression with vet to cover some of its issues, why not give the MG34 bonus damage with vet.
7 Apr 2020, 19:28 PM
#4
Posts: 2693 | Subs: 1
This is a cop out answer. MG damage matters when green cover actually decides to work and stops suppression. You cannot dislodge units from safety if you don't deal damage. The vickers gets bonus suppression with vet to cover some of its issues, why not give the MG34 bonus damage with vet.
It has that already in the form of incendiary rounds.
7 Apr 2020, 19:28 PM
#5
Posts: 785
It has very good suppression, only slightly worse than the HMG 42. IIRC it suppresses squads at medium range in neutral cover in ~1,3s while the HMG 42 does it in ~1.2s.
It has lackluster damage but that's not what you get an HMG for anyway.
This, although I myself wouldn't mind raising the damage output a bit to help it vet; its DPS is rather well below the second weakest contender, the M2HB (which could itself use some normalization of aim time...).
7 Apr 2020, 19:33 PM
#6
Posts: 4183 | Subs: 4
It has that already in the form of incendiary rounds.
So you're comparing an active ability that requires premptive use to a vickers passive one like 55 range and 50 sight in buildings? Doesn't seem to fair.
7 Apr 2020, 19:42 PM
#7
Posts: 2693 | Subs: 1
So you're comparing an active ability that requires premptive use to a vickers passive one like 55 range and 50 sight in buildings? Doesn't seem to fair.
Yes, I am. It's asymetrical balance that works fine in my opinion. A vetted up vickers becomes more difficult to deal with, AP rounds on axis MGs turns them into temporary beast mode MGs.
7 Apr 2020, 20:10 PM
#8
Posts: 2358
Yes, I am. It's asymetrical balance that works fine in my opinion. A vetted up vickers becomes more difficult to deal with, AP rounds on axis MGs turns them into temporary beast mode MGs.
Just asking, is Ic rounds Mg34 dmg better or worse than .50 Cal? Or vickers?, just to have some stats.
7 Apr 2020, 20:10 PM
#9
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
This is a cop out answer. MG damage matters when green cover actually decides to work and stops suppression. You cannot dislodge units from safety if you don't deal damage. The vickers gets bonus suppression with vet to cover some of its issues, why not give the MG34 bonus damage with vet.
I believe situation like that is called "intended positional counter to HMG" as it would need to have overpowered damage to threaten any infantry squad in green cover that's able to shoot back.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
7 Apr 2020, 20:19 PM
#10
Posts: 3166 | Subs: 6
This is a cop out answer. MG damage matters when green cover actually decides to work and stops suppression. You cannot dislodge units from safety if you don't deal damage. The vickers gets bonus suppression with vet to cover some of its issues, why not give the MG34 bonus damage with vet.
There's Volksgrenadiers to push units out of heavy cover. That's not the intended purpose of an HMG. I'd actually argue all HMGs should do less damage so they can't operate on their own as effectively.
7 Apr 2020, 20:41 PM
#11
Posts: 3423 | Subs: 1
This is a cop out answer. MG damage matters when green cover actually decides to work and stops suppression.
Emphasis on the "when" there. All you need is 1 model slightly out of cover and the squad is on the deck
7 Apr 2020, 20:44 PM
#12
Posts: 4183 | Subs: 4
I believe situation like that is called "intended positional counter to HMG" as it would need to have overpowered damage to threaten any infantry squad in green cover that's able to shoot back.
There's a difference between being able to trade and out DPS against non HMG34s, and just not even having a chance with the HMG34.
There's Volksgrenadiers to push units out of heavy cover. That's not the intended purpose of an HMG. I'd actually argue all HMGs should do less damage so they can't operate on their own as effectively.
All of them should follow the same rules, not just 1. Volks cannot push BAR'd rifles or 7 man cons. Not unless you're blobbing up to the cover and pray he doesn't dodge a flamenade. The simple fact is all other HMGs can damage units in green cover and the HMG34 cannot. Is there really an issue with changing the HMG34s damage from 3 to 4 to match the 42? Jack up the price to 250 or something. It'll still have the same suppression and inferior to the 42 in every way because of the lower RoF, but it actually won't be a shrugged threat vs bagged infantry like every other MG.
Emphasis on the "when" there. All you need is 1 model slightly out of cover and the squad is on the deck
That isn't an MG34 issue alone though. That plagues every MG and every squad trying to sit in cover.
7 Apr 2020, 20:50 PM
#13
Posts: 3423 | Subs: 1
That isn't an MG34 issue alone though. That plagues every MG and every squad trying to sit in cover.
Yes that's exactly my point. This is why MG damage doesn't really matter, regardless of which MG you're talking about
If anything it's one of the few (maybe only?) negative things about larger squad sizes, so you could definitely say it benefits MG34 against soviets for example
7 Apr 2020, 20:53 PM
#14
Posts: 3602 | Subs: 1
There's a difference between being able to trade and out DPS against non HMG34s, and just not even having a chance with the HMG34.
All of them should follow the same rules, not just 1. Volks cannot push BAR'd rifles or 7 man cons. Not unless you're blobbing up to the cover and pray he doesn't dodge a flamenade.
if he dodge the flamnade he goes out of cover?
7 Apr 2020, 21:26 PM
#16
Posts: 1392
HMG34 is a nice weapon. It doesn't needs changes.
Better reduce Vickers and Maxims DPS versus units in cover etc.
Better reduce Vickers and Maxims DPS versus units in cover etc.
7 Apr 2020, 21:30 PM
#17
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
HMG34 is a nice weapon. It doesn't needs changes.
Better reduce Vickers and Maxims DPS versus units in cover etc.
Better learn how cover works and realize that HMGs and any other small arms unit above range 10 does pitiful damage against green cover.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
7 Apr 2020, 21:33 PM
#18
Posts: 1392
Better learn how cover works and realize that HMGs and any other small arms unit above range 10 does pitiful damage against green cover.
Pls start play the game. Vickers is a no-brainer.
I see it when I get it as Beutewaffe, then you can see the performance. ;D
7 Apr 2020, 21:38 PM
#19
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
Pls start play the game. Vickers is a no-brainer.
I see it when I get it as Beutewaffe, then you can see the performance. ;D
Oh yes.... that massive 1,8 DPS at long range against green cover, so dangerous! So bold!
Playing a game clearly doesn't make you have a slightest clue about what you're talking about.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
7 Apr 2020, 21:42 PM
#20
Posts: 1392
Oh yes.... that massive 1,8 DPS at long range against green cover, so dangerous! So bold!
Playing a game clearly doesn't make you have a slightest clue about what you're talking about.
It also ignores more or less suppression, battles in green-cover to green-cover are easy-wins. Vickers is desinged to perform best as garrison. So why it gets the mechanics? Tommies are here to fill that, not the HMG.
Like why brits were able to use grenades without min. range? (before I request with full heart to patch) and still don't have the suppression range nerf if suppressed?
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