Ram + Offmap combo needs to be nerfed

When will anything ever be done about this retarded mechanic?

Please tell tell us balance team.

It doesn't need a nerf. The combo is locked behind the doctrine and it's the main use of T34-76 past the first tank stage (where it's mostly used vs infantry and light vehicles). That doctrine is a definite counter to heavy tanks with RAM as it should be. It's a muni vs fuel duel. You spend 200 muni and a t34 to kill a 230 fuel and 640 manpower heavy tank. Is it a good trade for the axis? No, but that's the whole point. Besides, the combo is mostly used vs front line heavy tanks like KT and Tiger, not the heavy tank destroyers that sit behind and snipe. Again, it's a risk to field frontline heavies vs that doctrine. You can't really complain about an ability that drops bombs in a straight thin line designed to destroy tanks.

It doesn't need a nerf. The combo is locked behind the doctrine and it's the main use of T34-76 past the first tank stage (where it's mostly used vs infantry and light vehicles). That doctrine is a definite counter to heavy tanks with RAM as it should be. It's a muni vs fuel duel. You spend 200 muni and a t34 to kill a 230 fuel and 640 manpower heavy tank. Is it a good trade for the axis? No, but that's the whole point. Besides, the combo is mostly used vs front line heavy tanks like KT and Tiger, not the heavy tank destroyers that sit behind and snipe. Again, it's a risk to field frontline heavies vs that doctrine. You can't really complain about an ability that drops bombs in a straight thin line designed to destroy tanks.

+

+ if you dont execute it perfectly, which is hard enough, you wasted tank + muni

tbh. drving backwards is a bit easier than timing ram plane and clickimng from the right side

It doesn't need a nerf. The combo is locked behind the doctrine and it's the main use of T34-76 past the first tank stage (where it's mostly used vs infantry and light vehicles). That doctrine is a definite counter to heavy tanks with RAM as it should be. It's a muni vs fuel duel. You spend 200 muni and a t34 to kill a 230 fuel and 640 manpower heavy tank. Is it a good trade for the axis? No, but that's the whole point. Besides, the combo is mostly used vs front line heavy tanks like KT and Tiger, not the heavy tank destroyers that sit behind and snipe. Again, it's a risk to field frontline heavies vs that doctrine. You can't really complain about an ability that drops bombs in a straight thin line designed to destroy tanks.

To add to this post, the T34 ram wont always deal critical engine damage, I think the probabilty of that happening is 50/50. So, if there is no engine crit, the heavy tank can just dodge off the IL2 bombs pretty easily. Hence, making the T34 ram+IL2 combo a very high risk and high reward maneuver.

I find it funny that people lose their shit on every axis ability there is. But to anyone who has any decent sense of balance it should be very clear that the risk to reward ratio is way into reward side for the ram+rocket strafe combination.

I find it funny that people lose their shit on every axis ability there is. But to anyone who has any decent sense of balance it should be very clear that the risk to reward ratio is way into reward side for the ram+rocket strafe combination.

do it 5 times in a row then

do it 5 times in a row then

i would love to, cant imagine how finally it would be a cake wake to take out ISU's

I find it funny that people lose their shit on every axis ability there is. But to anyone who has any decent sense of balance it should be very clear that the risk to reward ratio is way into reward side for the ram+rocket strafe combination.

Literally diving a tank into enemy lines to sacrifice it in combination with a well timed off map is a lot more work than just any Ole off map....

Like... Would you be kind enough to list a few examples of abilities who's risk/ reward ratio exceeds suiciding a tank? The most comparable I could see is blocking pathing behind an enemy tank, but if it succeeds your tank isnt behind enemy lines with no gun and no engine... I'd be happy to asses what you consider more of a risk however than suiciding a tank into an enemy.

Literally diving a tank into enemy lines to sacrifice it in combination with a well timed off map is a lot more work than just any Ole off map....

Like... Would you be kind enough to list a few examples of abilities who's risk/ reward ratio exceeds suiciding a tank? The most comparable I could see is blocking pathing behind an enemy tank, but if it succeeds your tank isnt behind enemy lines with no gun and no engine... I'd be happy to asses what you consider more of a risk however than suiciding a tank into an enemy.

First off depending on the situation the t34 might actually survive. i have seen it often enough. It is not a guaranteed lose as many here seem to claim. Only in the situations you care to describe it is indeed a guarenteed lose. Not to mention the ram is only one initiator. If you time it well it even works with an AEC stun, or a regular engine damage, the strafe doesn’t have to hit full time, if the target is damaged even a couple of hits are enough to take it down.

And please, don’t tell me putting up a strafe against a stunned target is what you actually consider "a well-timed off map". Thats like gold player micro required.

First off depending on the situation the t34 might actually survive. i have seen it often enough. It is not a guaranteed lose as many here seem to claim. Only in the situations you care to describe it is indeed a guarenteed lose. Not to mention the ram is only one initiator. If you time it well it even works with an AEC stun, or a regular engine damage, the strafe doesn’t have to hit full time, if the target is damaged even a couple of hits are enough to take it down.

And please, don’t tell me putting up a strafe against a stunned target is what you actually consider "a well-timed off map". Thats like gold player micro required.

the airborne commander has gotten already a heavy nerf in svt cost, so I don't think strafe needs a nerf. that's like the only saving grace for the commander. the other commander slots are kinda meh. except forward base. half of the time the rockets hit the nearby terrain. and the penetration is low. only works well from behind. and if the tank is not stunned it can easily move out of the strike zone by seeing the plane direction


it is harder to implement in larger maps. and a engine damaged tank with no gun is a dead tank. if the t34 survies it is probably because the opponent was incompetent enough to finish off a suicide tank with no teeth

First off depending on the situation the t34 might actually survive. i have seen it often enough. It is not a guaranteed lose as many here seem to claim. Only in the situations you care to describe it is indeed a guarenteed lose. Not to mention the ram is only one initiator. If you time it well it even works with an AEC stun, or a regular engine damage, the strafe doesn’t have to hit full time, if the target is damaged even a couple of hits are enough to take it down.

And please, don’t tell me putting up a strafe against a stunned target is what you actually consider "a well-timed off map". Thats like gold player micro required.

If the t34 manages to survive you absolutely deserve to lose your tank because there wasn't enough support around to kill an immobilized medium tank... That's not a scenario or risk vs reward then it's risking little because you are either playing against easy bots or hellen Keller and neither should be a basis for balance.

I say we'll timed because statistically, ram is going to result in a stun, not an immobilization. The actual chance of immobilization is incredibly small meaning you truly do have a small window with ram and would actually be better off with button, which costs significantly less and doesn't risk a tank at all, though it is indeed less mobile.

Your last bit about complaining that combining other units abilities and off maps really signals that the issue isn't even ram and an off map, it's playing against a better player who can isolate and off map your heavy Armour which again, is no basis for balance.

For what it's worth, Ostheer has immobilization mines, multiple stun abilities and great AT off maps as well. Okw has a harder time with a wombo combo but it's hardly a soviet exclusive thing.

Honestly against Soviets, I don't rely on Heavy Tanks. (I'm a 1v1 player)

I use STUGs. Vet 1 Stugs with 'Target Weak Point' are generally good enough. Usually I'll use a pair as a task force to bully T34's around.

And if SU goes Tank Destroyer, I'll target weak point again, go for a flank, and assign a PG AT squad to obliterate it.

T34 Ram is not that big of a deal, IMO.

Honestly against Soviets, I don't rely on Heavy Tanks. (I'm a 1v1 player)

I use STUGs. Vet 1 Stugs with 'Target Weak Point' are generally good enough. Usually I'll use a pair as a task force to bully T34's around.

And if SU goes Tank Destroyer, I'll target weak point again, go for a flank, and assign a PG AT squad to obliterate it.

T34 Ram is not that big of a deal, IMO.

Stug's "HEAT Shell" ability is actually UP...

Ram + call in is high risk high reward.
Especially against axis heavy tds a su85 alone will often struggle and what to do if you dont have tools like the isu152

+ when going for Ram plays, the game becomes chaotic and breaks otherwise boring stalemates. soviets dont have a nondoctrinal panther to do dives, the 34 (inferior to most tanks) must do
its fun

If the t34 manages to survive you absolutely deserve to lose your tank because there wasn't enough support around to kill an immobilized medium tank... That's not a scenario or risk vs reward then it's risking little because you are either playing against easy bots or hellen Keller and neither should be a basis for balance.

I say we'll timed because statistically, ram is going to result in a stun, not an immobilization. The actual chance of immobilization is incredibly small meaning you truly do have a small window with ram and would actually be better off with button, which costs significantly less and doesn't risk a tank at all, though it is indeed less mobile.

Your last bit about complaining that combining other units abilities and off maps really signals that the issue isn't even ram and an off map, it's playing against a better player who can isolate and off map your heavy Armour which again, is no basis for balance.

For what it's worth, Ostheer has immobilization mines, multiple stun abilities and great AT off maps as well. Okw has a harder time with a wombo combo but it's hardly a soviet exclusive thing.

First off i play 3on3 in the top 10 and 2on2 in the top 100, ranking depending on how many teams are going around atm. I regularly play against and with players like miragefla, troyd, the TR bunch, chua, creative and others. I have won and lost against everyone in the top 100 2on2. I may not be one of the very top of the players, but i am good enough to compete with the very best on a regular basis and have success against them.

My issue with the rocket strafe imo is that is creates options for plays which Axis have either no real counter to and that it is easily used as a defensive or as an offensive ability, and that is simply too strong when executed by a player of high skill. I have no overall quarrel against the ability from the mid-low ranks, but if you face high end players which have a way higher situational awareness and are better at judging critical situations, counter playing this for Axis becomes much harder.

I have been in a game where miragefla ACCIDENTLY killed an 80% hp P4 who happened to retreat into it. The damage alone is simply over tuned. Not to mention whenever or not you actually have a good shot of killing a tank, this ability means you have to move instantly. So in late game for example if sov want to push they simply have to one strafe behind your tank line, JT or whatever and you will have to reposition or you are pretty much dead. Yes, this could be said for almost all off maps, but most of them are just dangerous to infantry and can be tanked a bit, not to mention cost way more. A strafe not so much.

Also, its way easier in late game to flank with a couple of T-34’s with great success, only one of them have to succeed and its pretty much game ending. What happens if I flank with a panther? Well, not much to begin with, either you dive and try to block or you stand there and shoot a couple of times. Nothing compares to the very imitate risk and action required in comparison to a mere T-34 flank which requires every Axis player to INSTANTLY shift attention or lose his heavy tank. This is vastly unproportionable.

Also want to push as Axis? Well, beware, run in your tanks and he might ram you. Again limiting options.

I could go into more detail, but I actually do not like to play chat warrior. If you believe the ability is fine, we can agree to disagree. Chances that you succeed to change my mind are rather slim.

I don't think Ram + offmap needs change however Allies specifically Soviets and USF could use some non-doctrinal heavy armour if this combo was to be nerfed.

I have no problem with it being nerfed but Axis having access to heavy armour and Panther without doctrinal choices makes shitty combos like Ram+IL2 a necessity. You can't nerf their most effective way of getting value trades without providing alternatives.

Also as someone else mentioned before, T-34 has no place in the game after the first tank phase when Axis can get heavier armour. T-34 simply becomes a liability especially with how poorly it trades. This leads to the current meta of Allies TD vs Axis heavy armour. Keeping Ram+IL2 in the game at least gives a high risk/high reward component to the T-34. You either win or lose to one stupid combo.

what about Guards Button Vehicle?

Jump to 1:07 if you want to see what i mean.

what about Guards Button Vehicle?

Jump to 1:07 if you want to see what i mean.

What about it?
Its counterable in multiple ways.

What about it?
Its counterable in multiple ways.

as is everything ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

what about Guards Button Vehicle?

Jump to 1:07 if you want to see what i mean.

Yeah. Just silly. And this is exactly how you make players resign from playing the game (a great game btw) - because of a rightfully felt frustration. I feel there should be "frustration" section instead of balance section on the forum, where everybody would think on ways of making it less frustrating to play the game.

In this situation a (70 range?) supposedly zero AT capable isu152 played its role too. This is the unit I would look at tbh. The strafe itself without button, mark target and ISU152 wouldn't be that lethal.