What if we made the Flame Hetzer a useful unit?

The hetzer is actually really really good, but it's stuck in a lame doctrine.

I personally don't use any of the abilities other than Stuka and Flame Hetzer.

We could easily turn the Opel Blitz into a mobile cache like the Ostheer variant. That would assist in a Hetzer rush strategy and have some synergy. Not sure why the balance team decided to give OKW a blob support unit instead. There are people out there that insist on playing it the most obnoxious way possible just rushing your cut off with 4 Volks + Opel and then having infinite reinforcement there. There was a reason why Relic didn't give OKW a mobile reinforcement vehicle. If they want to keep it as it is they should just reduce the price and make it a OKW ambulance with same stats as the USF one.

Then rework MP40 Volk package and Sturmpioneer flamer upgrade into something that isn't as awkward and has synergy.

You get Flamer on Sturmpioneers to clear out a garrison but regular Volks already have the flame grenade so there isn't much point in it. Then you can't get a sweeper unless you get another Sturmpioneer which is super expensive and generally something you want to avoid at all costs. The MP40 Volks are pretty strong but worse than STG Volks for late game because they require a ton more micro which you would rather spend on vehicles, rocket artillery etc.

Here we go again. We can't have nice things because of 3v3 and 4v4.

lol Who cares about 1vs1 ? This game is still alive only because teamgames exist

lol Who cares about 1vs1 ? This game is still alive only because teamgames exist

Complete nonsense. 3v3 is the least played game mode, 1v1 the most. 1v1 is where the big money tournaments are, not 4v4. 4v4 is considered a meme mode, and rightly so.

lol Who cares about 1vs1 ?

Where's the $15K+ price pool by Sega for your 3v3/4v4 tournament?

Think before speaking.

Complete nonsense. 3v3 is the least played game mode, 1v1 the most. 1v1 is where the big money tournaments are, not 4v4. 4v4 is considered a meme mode, and rightly so.

What on earth are you talking about? What is your source? According to last round of automatch stats by Siphon, 1v1 is the least played game mode. Team games are much more popular....
https://www.coh2.org/news/92866/automatch-stats-factions-teams-and-maps#index

Where's the $15K+ price pool by Sega for your 3v3/4v4 tournament?

Think before speaking.

He's 100% correct, 1v1 is the least played game mode. If 1v1 was the most popular mode but with the same number of ppl playing it as Siphons stats show, this game would be absolutely dead

Idk how people are using a hetzer where it can 2v1 setup AT guns but I don’t think it’s dps is high enough for that. An armor boost or a pintle damage boost to AA wouldn’t hurt.

He's 100% correct

That the game should be balanced around casual players?

No

That the game should be balanced around casual players?

No

"Who cares about 1v1?" is a stretch, but this game is absolutely still alive because of team games

And yeah, that should matter. If buffing something for 1v1s break team games, then no it shouldn't be done

The modteam has said the exact same thing, including in this thread, so...

And yeah, that should matter. If buffing something for 1v1s break team games, then no it shouldn't be done

You are the master of inventing new arguments.

You are the master of inventing new arguments.

New? What are you talking about?

Someone literally said this on the first page of the thread:

There's plenty of opportunity for Feuersturm to dominate on these regularly played maps, and making it stronger for 1v1/2v2 would likely break it in 3v3/4v4.

is obvious without a doubt team games are more popular, but team games are more difficult to balance.

Regrading hetzer, it is a good unit but its just too risky to go for, rather go safe and go for p4, if it came earlier it would see more use, but could lead it to over perform for its timing. (hence the difficulty in balancing it)

tbh idk what sander is talking about how this unit is used alot in team games, i bareley ever see it in team games.

New? What are you talking about?

I never said 4v4 should be ignored, stop taking offense from nonexistent arguments.

I never said 4v4 should be ignored, stop taking offense from nonexistent arguments.

No one got offended by anything, you said casual players shouldn't determine balance. I took that as you saying team games shouldn't matter?

What is your point then?

Hetzer is really a meme unit. The doctrine would need changes and the Hetzer would need buffs along with a price increase to become viable. KV-8 does everything Hetzer does, just way better and also has considerably better support units around it, and not even KV-8 is seen that often.

KV-8 does everything Hetzer does, just way better and also has considerably better support units around it, and not even KV-8 is seen that often.

I bet you see it a lot more after IS2 nerfs. Its actually similar to hetzer situation with OKW p4.

Why get hetzer/KV8 when I can save the fuel for P4/IS2, respectively. Both are just AI exclusive vehicles that you can ignore and save up for something that does both

OKW was originally designed without a stock P4 so I assume that has something to do with the Hetzer's issue of fitting in

Hetzer is really a meme unit. The doctrine would need changes and the Hetzer would need buffs along with a price increase to become viable. KV-8 does everything Hetzer does, just way better and also has considerably better support units around it, and not even KV-8 is seen that often.

Comparing Hetzer to KV-8 and saying its bad because KV-8 does X is same as comparing WASP to Hetzer and saying WASP is bad, because it can't even survive 2 ATG shots and is penned by infantry while dealing low damage.
These units do NOT arrive at the same time and these units do NOT have the same cost.
Comparing them is pointless.

Here we go again. We can't have nice things because of 3v3 and 4v4.

I don't care about 1v1. It bores me to tears.

Team games are what CoH2 is about for me. If the balance is ruined for 1v1 then I apologise to the 10 people that may upset.

1v1 orientated balance isn't the way to go if more people are playing team games.

My 2 cents about the hetzer from a 3v3 perspective:

Rushing the hetzer in bigger game modes is a good choice when you had good fuel control and your team mates can back you up witth AT/tanks. I personally have made good experiences when I build the hetzer not as the first tank but later. Its super helpful to hold points.

So all in all the hetzer is fine imo but the inc. rounds in the commander dont justify a whole commander slot and should be merged or replaced.

Comparing Hetzer to KV-8 and saying its bad because KV-8 does X is same as comparing WASP to Hetzer and saying WASP is bad, because it can't even survive 2 ATG shots and is penned by infantry while dealing low damage.
These units do NOT arrive at the same time and these units do NOT have the same cost.
Comparing them is pointless.

Bingo, it's exactly like that, because they are in the same situation of simply not being competitive. And guess which one is seen in competitive play? None.

Could add it to Grand Offensive in place of the Panzer Commander slot lol