Fallshrims got completely neutered over the years

Hopelessly and hilariously outgunned? The lutwaffe had just bombed the shit out of the place before they landed and the RAF had to completely withdraw what little planes they had there. The lutwaffe also prevented about 25,000 tons of supplies from reaching Crete by bombing the crap out of the navy well before they got there

They had complete air superiority and the british matildas that were there only used AP rounds, they wouldve been mostly useless against infantry. Saying it was just fallschimjaegers kicking ass is complete nonsense

dude pls grab some history books and not only allied propaganda....

and just return to topic pls. This is not a history forum...

dude pls grab some history books and not only allied propaganda....

Lol grab a book yourself that's exactly what happened. And how is that propaganda? I explained how the allies got their ass kicked? That would be some dumb propaganda...

I'm also noticing how you said nothing to the guy who brought up history in the first place...

Regardless of the lore falls are elite infantry and should be represented as such. Nobody is arguing about the propaganda for guards or rangers nor should we be. Falls should be unique and powerful but I feel they land more on the latter and less on the former currently. The balance team did an admirable job in a momentous attempt to rework falls, but I think it missed the mark and in turn falls lost their spirit.

Falls should be unique and powerful but I feel they land more on the latter and less on the former currently. The balance team did an admirable job in a momentous attempt to rework falls, but I think it missed the mark and in turn falls lost their spirit.

What would you do for them though? Like i think they should've never had a snare, so that should stay gone imo. Their ambush bonus is really solid. They also have strong grenades that can be combined with that stealth to powerful effect

What would you do for them though? Like i think they should've never had a snare, so that should stay gone imo. Their ambush bonus is really solid. They also have strong grenades that can be combined with that stealth to powerful effect

I'm of the mind they were mostly fine before the change. The ambush bonus is a nice addition and I think any unit attacking from stealth should get it. Previously the snare wasn't an issue due to their squishiness and cost, I don't think it would be one if their dps is returned to the old high but not attack across no cover and still manage to win somehow high.

Ambitiously
Perhaps (and hear me out here) changing their vet 1 to reinforce on field (by plane, that Flys over the map) when not in combat. That would let them remain in enemy territory BUT let the enemy know they are still there... Somewhere....

But conservatively,
I'd take a closer look at the doctrine and return falls to their former power level. A single apsectof a commander being the only selling point is never a good idea
Mash the ostwind into the flak emplacement slot and combo them as "air defenses " or something and see how that looks. Then there are 2 units that share the weight of the commander instead of making falls OP to make it attractive

I'm of the mind they were mostly fine before the change. The ambush bonus is a nice addition and I think any unit attacking from stealth should get it. Previously the snare wasn't an issue due to their squishiness and cost, I don't think it would be one if their dps is returned to the old high but not attack across no cover and still manage to win somehow high.

Ambitiously
Perhaps (and hear me out here) changing their vet 1 to reinforce on field (by plane, that Flys over the map) when not in combat. That would let them remain in enemy territory BUT let the enemy know they are still there... Somewhere....

But conservatively,
I'd take a closer look at the doctrine and return falls to their former power level. A single apsectof a commander being the only selling point is never a good idea
Mash the ostwind into the flak emplacement slot and combo them as "air defenses " or something and see how that looks. Then there are 2 units that share the weight of the commander instead of making falls OP to make it attractive

I could be wrong but camo was a vet 2 passive on old falls right? Maybe if they made it like it is now, comes by default and gives ambush with vet, and move the snare to vet 1. The costs would also need to be redone again

I actually like the reinforcing on the field idea, but i feel like it is just a little too ambitious

I could be wrong but camo was a vet 2 passive on old falls right? Maybe if they made it like it is now, comes by default and gives ambush with vet, and move the snare to vet 1. The costs would also need to be redone again

I actually like the reinforcing on the field idea, but i feel like it is just a little too ambitious

It used to be vet then iirc on their first overhaul it was made sooner but no ambush bonus but I could get behind your suggestion.

They aren't bad. They are redundant though. In the end this doctrine is less attractive than a heavy call in doc in pretty much any case.

They aren't bad. They are redundant though. In the end this doctrine is less attractive than a heavy call in doc in pretty much any case.

And which are the heavy call in doc for OKW ?

Command panther is dead anayway....
Sturmtiger

Grandoffensie is the only one ... and thats the meta

JT is a 2v2+ only

Where are the super strong OKW commanders ? with good call ins and arty support and call in inf ?
like every SU commander

And which are the heavy call in doc for OKW ?

Where are the super strong OKW commanders ? with good call ins and arty support and call in inf ?
like every SU commander

Its called stock army in OKW case.

All of what you've mentioned does not require any doctrine and is available to you at all times.

You want to have power spike like soviets after picking doctrine?
Then first you'd have to nerf into barely any relevance volks, HMG34, P4 and actually doc lock KT and limit it to only a single doctrine while also making ober LMGs doctrinal only, so stock ones have just rifles and nades.

You know, like SU have it.

Its called stock army in OKW case.



You want to have power spike like soviets after picking doctrine?
Then first you'd have to nerf into barely any relevance volks, HMG34, P4 and actually doc lock KT and limit it to only a single doctrine while also making ober LMGs doctrinal only, so stock ones have just rifles and nades.

You know, like SU have it.

But cons are already better than volks... and with 7Men even more... and dont start with penals

HMG34... pls worst MG of all, no dmg output, dies from looking at it, 4Men...
P4 is quite expensive and u cant get a P5 a few mins later.

no i want to have a power spike at all ...after the first engagement. When someone is dumb enogh to ran into Sturms in cqc range...

"All of what you've mentioned does not require any doctrine and is available to you at all times."

In your dreams dude.
U know why Grand offensie is the META?
because of exectly what ive wrote.... it got all the things u need.

But lets just stop here pls .... u won... okw is just fine with his one playable commander and equal to SU

But cons are already better than volks... and with 7Men even more... and dont start with penals

Const are getting nerfs.
Penals are much more expensive and tech locked.

HMG34... pls worst MG of all, no dmg output, dies from looking at it, 4Men...
P4 is quite expensive and u cant get a P5 a few mins later.

That's how you spot bad player.

no i want to have a power spike at all ...after the first engagement. When someone is dumb enogh to ran into Sturms in cqc range...

Then put them behind a LOS blocker, not in the middle of the red cover road?

In your dreams dude.
U know why Grand offensie is the META?
because of exectly what ive wrote.... it got all the things u need.

Because there is an OP unit there, which is getting heavy nerfs now.

But lets just stop here pls .... u won... okw is just fine with his one playable commander and equal to SU

Glad I could be of help and you finally realized that OKW is playable and you're the one who needs to "fix" himself and gitgud.

In the end this doctrine is less attractive than a heavy call in doc in pretty much any case.

That's a pretty temporary thing though. Heavies are getting their fair share of nerfs

Where are the super strong OKW commanders ? with good call ins and arty support and call in inf ?
like every SU commander

SU docs are better because the stock army is barebones.

Not that OKW doctrines are bad, there's really good ones to fit your playstyle for every mode, from Firestorm in 1v1 to Fortifications in 4v4.

SU docs are better because the stock army is barebones.

Not that OKW doctrines are bad, there's really good ones to fit your playstyle for every mode, from Firestorm in 1v1 to Fortifications in 4v4.

Aha stock army bare bone...
like :

solid pack 6 Men arty strike
6Men MG
Sniper
car
Light Tank
good mainline
...


3 playable start variants...

sure theyre so bad

Well what can I say, anyone who thinks falls are UP atm are straight up morons.

Others have already said they are Ober level infantry at 2 CP with stealth, what else can be asked for??? And they have a easier to use DPS curve than obers. Or was that g43 pfusiliers? Oh wait, both of them are great at ALL ranges.

Why does OKW need to have so many units that are great at all ranges? Even volks can be argued to be great at all ranges. In many ways the StG upgrade > LMG42 because, u can fire on the move, easier to use dps curve (good close range as well), and u never drop them.

The only OKW squad that ISN'T suitable for a-move blobbing are sturms. And the only OKW inf that need ANY SKILLS AT ALL to use are sturms and jaegers.

OKW is the defacto NOOB FACTION.

As much as many hated the Brits for their cancer for so long, at least their infantry needed to hug cover to trade effectively in the early and midgame. USF riflemen aren't cost effective long range and will bleed if you try to even close the gap even just to midrange. Cons have been very balanced until the most recent overbuffs. Even penal cheese back in the day was nowhere near as bad as JLI overbuff or Falls overbuff or even the OKW cultists that only use one doctrine in their loadout - Grand Offensive.

Well what can I say, anyone who thinks falls are UP atm are straight up morons.

Others have already said they are Ober level infantry at 2 CP with stealth, what else can be asked for??? And they have a easier to use DPS curve than obers. Or was that g43 pfusiliers? Oh wait, both of them are great at ALL ranges.

Why does OKW need to have so many units that are great at all ranges? Even volks can be argued to be great at all ranges. In many ways the StG upgrade > LMG42 because, u can fire on the move, easier to use dps curve (good close range as well), and u never drop them.

The only OKW squad that ISN'T suitable for a-move blobbing are sturms. And the only OKW inf that need ANY SKILLS AT ALL to use are sturms and jaegers.

OKW is the defacto NOOB FACTION.

As much as many hated the Brits for their cancer for so long, at least their infantry needed to hug cover to trade effectively in the early and midgame. USF riflemen aren't cost effective long range and will bleed if you try to even close the gap even just to midrange. Cons have been very balanced until the most recent overbuffs. Even penal cheese back in the day was nowhere near as bad as JLI overbuff or Falls overbuff or even the OKW cultists that only use one doctrine in their loadout - Grand Offensive.

When you have core infantry that leaves little to be desired your elite infantry needs to defy balance or be left by the wayside. ISF has the same issue with rangers and paras needing to be beyond amazing meanwhile the other factions, the ones that are not designed with do everything at all ranges on the move with a single infantry type have elite infantry that have unique feels and roles. When your infantry can already do everything you could want it to the only way to have "elite" infantry is for them to do it better.

When you have core infantry that leaves little to be desired your elite infantry needs to defy balance or be left by the wayside. ISF has the same issue with rangers and paras needing to be beyond amazing meanwhile the other factions, the ones that are not designed with do everything at all ranges on the move with a single infantry type have elite infantry that have unique feels and roles. When your infantry can already do everything you could want it to the only way to have "elite" infantry is for them to do it better.

I can agree that USF elites can be ridiculously good but all of them have obvious ranges where their dps will suffer badly and hence are more easily countered than ie. falls. And the fact that none of them have camo means its harder for them to pick their engagements.

I can agree that USF elites can be ridiculously good but all of them have obvious ranges where their dps will suffer badly and hence are more easily countered than ie. falls. And the fact that none of them have camo means its harder for them to pick their engagements.

Usf elites make that up with durability. Neither are well designed, but it's a symptom of poorly designed mainline literally designed to be good in every single scenario they could find themselves in. Both WFA factions are guilty of this. Usf have powerful infantry you can't kill and okw has infantry you don't have time to kill because they are going to wipe you or burst down models faster than you can fight back with.

All the bluster about shocks and guards, at least they have CLEAR strengths and weaknesses (range, mobility, bleed, lack of forward healing ect)

Edit: recon paras have camo even with Thompsons don't they? Or is it just the super zooks?

Edit: recon paras have camo even with Thompsons don't they? Or is it just the super zooks?

Recon paras cant get Thompsons, and only get camo with the AT package (2x elite bazooka).