Winter balance mod 2020 V1.3

Lets give it FF armor, mobility, AI damage of MGs and reload too and you'll instantly notice how everyone suddenly wants old panther now.

Current Firefly is amazing.

Making the Panther a Firefly with good armour and better top speed but also more expensive and without Tulips is not a bad idea.

Current Firefly is amazing.

Making the Panther a Firefly with good armour and better top speed but also more expensive and without Tulips is not a bad idea.

Amazing isn't what I would use to describe it, but it certainly doesn't need anything in context of the army.

And with that context, had it belonged to ost, I'm fairly certain it would be extremely easy to overrun the faction now that there is no more lumbering brick of armor that deters medium tanks and helps against infantry.

Will Assault Section get a different unit icon or some other decorator to denote its assault variation? After they get the Thompson symbol after their upgrade, but before that they are same as regular Tommies.

Based on 1.3，maybe can give all factions highest tech bouns like new Ost T4 effect？

Current Firefly is amazing.

Making the Panther a Firefly with good armour and better top speed but also more expensive and without Tulips is not a bad idea.

That is one of the worst ideas I've heard in a while, and I've seen plenty of dweeb level "buff this" ideas on these forums.

That is one of the worst ideas I've heard in a while, and I've seen plenty of dweeb level "buff this" ideas on these forums.

Yeah well tough tiddies, my idea has always been just to lower the Panther’s vet requirements a bit, not turn it into a FF.

Few people been talking about the panther and it’s accuracy issues even with veterancy. Just realized that the medium buff of target size will nerf this against the panther which the panther doesn’t currently need. Please give the panther veterancy some kind of accuracy buff so it isn’t missing shots at 5 range. It’s absurd.

A very good point imo. Shoud be addressed in the patch.

Can't we make panther a slightly better comet? A tier 4 panzer 4 replacement. Just like it was meant to be historically (The production cost was just slightly higher than that of p4) I simply don't agree it should be some kind of 'strange' tank destroyer. Tier 3 stug should be ostheer's main TD while p4 should be replaced at some point by panthers that should be sth like 20%-30% better than ostheer's panzer 4s.

Yeah well tough tiddies, my idea has always been just to lower the Panther’s vet requirements a bit, not turn it into a FF.

Big tiddy goth tiddies. I meant no offense, but I did not know what you wanted. Lowering Panther vet reqs a bit is not a godly buff, so it could work, however, Panther is currently a powerful tank, one of the best tank hunters with it's speed/armour/blitzkrieg/penetration/damage. It can go toe to toe with Pershing and win. Downsides? Moving accuracy, that's it... a small price to pay for heavy tank armour and hp.

The Panther already has quite low veterancy requirements (except for OKW's vet 4 and 5 being disproportionally high) for its cost and performance: around 10.000 for vet 3. That's similar to other TDs (Firefly and Jackson have around 9000, SU-85 around 7000). And even though the Panther gains vet a bit slower because it's generally shooting at lower value targets (as opposed to TDs usually shooting at higher value targets) but the difference isn't that big.

Can't we make panther a slightly better comet? A tier 4 panzer 4 replacement. Just like it was meant to be historically (The production cost was just slightly higher than that of p4) I simply don't agree it should be some kind of 'strange' tank destroyer. Tier 3 stug should be ostheer's main TD while p4 should be replaced at some point by panthers that should be sth like 20%-30% better than ostheer's panzer 4s.

That's just cookie-cutting, "getting more in line with..." business, which is always a bad idea. If the plan of balancing is taking one faction's units, recoloring them and adding them to other units, then I'm quitting COH2 right now. You can't copy-paste stats and based on price, change the said stats by <N> percent. Axis have strong tanks, Comet is more well rounded but Panther is a much stronger tank hunter (not destroyer). Don't know why people want Panther to be buffed so much... It's a strong tank that can take down infantry if they are left unsupported (and AT squads) with it's MGs. If you want historical accuracy, then add a chance to every tank that it breaks down and loses 30% of HP with a random critical (except turret destroyed) damage while doing some random action. Nobody would play Panthers, King Tigers or Jagds anymore.

Just a basic comparison of tanks.
Comparing OST and USF:
Axis:
* Flakpanzer, tank USF: Half truck, not a tank, can suppress
* Panzer IV, better armored, veterancy improves that USF: M4A3 Sherman, same but a bit weaker but more agile with a better smoke screen and veterancy improves agility
* Brummbar, enough said USF: No non doctrinal unit like Brum Brum
* Stug, good AT gun USF: Well, nothing like it (closes thing is Jackson)
* Panther, enough said USF: Jackson, with the differences being already pointed out.
* Not even going to get into heavy tanks from Axis
So, Axis has better tanks, great infantry, USF is more versatile with it's abilities and weapon rack.
I'll say again: Except for the PErshing nerf and the cookie-cutter, "more in line with" BS, the balance is on point so far. Nothing stands out too much either being under or overpowered.

Axis has heavy tank destroyers (even more so with IS-2 being nerfed every time), Allies have heavy tank destroyers.
Axis has tank hunters and destroyers, Allies have tank hunters (like Easy Eight) and destroyers (like Jackson).
Neither faction has a "100% success tactic".
Final point for the balance. As an experimental physicist, working with data is part of my life so when you have so many variables that are processed in every discrete point in processing time, you'll have patches that one time buff, other times, nerf.
I think there exist 2 possible perfect balances. One where there is only one faction, and the other where you build a super computer that can give the "Answer to the Ultimate Question of Life, the Universe, and Everything" and it balances the game.

Post

I hear You. Still IMO it would be more logical for panther to become the best (and most expensive) premium medium tank. It should probably have lower armour and standard medium tank range cannon, be able to penetrate most tanks but also deal with infantry. I wouldn't like it to become a comet,though. I would like it to be a logical continuation of teaching for ost. The reason why you actually feel you want tier 4 asap. Also, it would be historically accurate. But I understand that it may be just me

Panther is receiving an indirect NERF, because they will now have less accuracy against T34 and Shermans.

Yep, less than today, which is already horrible for a tank hunter.

maybe use your powerfull schreck blob



while we are at it PLEASE FIX:

- soviet medic not healing properly all models sometimes (i dont need additional micro to get all units healed!!)
- zis sometimes not responding
- cons often clumping up after finishing sandbags (i dont need additional micro to get my squad PROPERLY behind their cover!!)
- fallschirmjäger with constant first strike bonus
- bugged reloading on howitzer (i only know it from ML20); the cooldown stops at 0 seconds reloading for quite some time
- s mines count as lost units

for the love of christ also add better unit spread so they dont always clump up..

Just a basic comparison of tanks.
Comparing OST and USF:
Axis:
* Flakpanzer, tank USF: Half truck, not a tank, can suppress
* Panzer IV, better armored, veterancy improves that USF: M4A3 Sherman, same but a bit weaker but more agile with a better smoke screen and veterancy improves agility
* Brummbar, enough said USF: No non doctrinal unit like Brum Brum
* Stug, good AT gun USF: Well, nothing like it (closes thing is Jackson)
* Panther, enough said USF: Jackson, with the differences being already pointed out.
* Not even going to get into heavy tanks from Axis
So, Axis has better tanks, great infantry, USF is more versatile with it's abilities and weapon rack.
I'll say again: Except for the PErshing nerf and the cookie-cutter, "more in line with" BS, the balance is on point so far. Nothing stands out too much either being under or overpowered.

lol... the next allied fanboy.

Sherman with HE shells rekts inf super fast... its basicly a Brumm.
Jackson counters every Tank u pointet out...
Scott is stock and counter every support weapon play...

"Axis has better tanks" sure buddy maybe u play axis and then comeback.
"great infantry" thats why OST gets a general Buff to inf.... because its so great.

lol... the next allied fanboy.

Sherman with HE shells rekts inf super fast... its basicly a Brumm.
Jackson counters every Tank u pointet out...
Scott is stock and counter every support weapon play...

"Axis has better tanks" sure buddy maybe u play axis and then comeback.
"great infantry" thats why OST gets a general Buff to inf.... because its so great.

uh someone offend my favorite faction he must be a fanboy lol

lol... the next allied fanboy.

Sherman with HE shells rekts inf super fast... its basicly a Brumm.
Jackson counters every Tank u pointet out...
Scott is stock and counter every support weapon play...

"Axis has better tanks" sure buddy maybe u play axis and then comeback.
"great infantry" thats why OST gets a general Buff to inf.... because its so great.

Fanboy? I love playing axis so I really don't know what you're on about. Love every faction except Soviets. I mean, I hate nazis but they do constitute a nice gameplay in this game. Sherman with HE shells is good vs infantry but brumm is still much better since it fires boulders of explosive, don't compare those tanks. One a heavy tank, other a medium general purpose. Jackson doesn't counter Panther since panther is well equipped, fast and armoured. And what is that argument, Jackson counters every tank. IT'S A TANK DESTROYER. It should be able to counter every tank in a sense that it can penetrate it and damage it.
Am I talking to a wall here?
Arguments, please, let's keep it civil, don't resort to tactics employed by 9 year olds "HE'S A FANBOY! KMEEEEE KMEEEEE!"

Fanboy? I love playing axis so I really don't know what you're on about. Love every faction except Soviets. I mean, I hate nazis but they do constitute a nice gameplay in this game. Sherman with HE shells is good vs infantry but brumm is still much better since it fires boulders of explosive, don't compare those tanks. One a heavy tank, other a medium general purpose. Jackson doesn't counter Panther since panther is well equipped, fast and armoured. And what is that argument, Jackson counters every tank. IT'S A TANK DESTROYER. It should be able to counter every tank in a sense that it can penetrate it and damage it.
Am I talking to a wall here?
Arguments, please, let's keep it civil, don't resort to tactics employed by 9 year olds "HE'S A FANBOY! KMEEEEE KMEEEEE!"

lol... ok so ur post does the general assumption that axis tanks are general superior ... which is not the case. And the Jackson panther debate is a whole ohter thing. The whole tankdestroyer thing is a try to give a RTS game a pseudo historic/realistic background. Which is very bad for balance...

lol... ok so ur post does the general assumption that axis tanks are general superior ... which is not the case. And the Jackson panther debate is a whole ohter thing. The whole tankdestroyer thing is a try to give a RTS game a pseudo historic/realistic background. Which is very bad for balance...

Obviously talking to an argument-lacking wall with improper logics here so just gonna ignore everything you have said and all future replies. Good day.

Obviously talking to an argument-lacking wall with improper logics here so just gonna ignore everything you have said and all future replies. Good day.

But tbh how You compared tanks is wrong. Hard to read because of so many inaccuracies, wrong assumptions and simple cherrypicking. Which lvl are You? Maybe You should show some replays?