This isn't really a balance issue since the unit is great. But I observed that the intended purpose (vehicle supporting nearby units) of the unit is rarely achieved.
I rarely ever see other people use the aura nor do I ever use it since activating the aura means your biggest damage dealer (the Tiger itself) has its damage output greatly reduced. In the end this leads to the ability not being used at all. Maybe a redesign is in order.
OKW Command Tiger Aura
8 Mar 2020, 13:48 PM
#1
Posts: 1217
8 Mar 2020, 13:56 PM
#2
Posts: 1794
Just remove it. Having the pintle upgrade is enough.
The aura and commander were probably put in when the mod team was over zealous in making a new unit.
Evidently both are op and not fair to have
The aura and commander were probably put in when the mod team was over zealous in making a new unit.
Evidently both are op and not fair to have
8 Mar 2020, 14:03 PM
#3
Posts: 731
I almost never use this ability……just make it be normal tiger，or aura be passive
8 Mar 2020, 14:04 PM
#4
Posts: 833
This is why I'm against buffs to the command P4 itself.
If the unit only has a token or limited aura and has great base DPS and performance on the tank people most likely will just use it as any other tank rather than in the command role.
The concept of a command tiger itself is kind of ridiculous to balance, because surely most people agree the design of a weak unit that provides buffs and can be targeted first is more balanced than a heavy tank that outguns anything it faces.
The balance team correctly realised this and it has a DPS trade off like you say... But obviously the tank is being ignored in its intended role. Because you know it's a frickin tiger tank
Maybe create a unique 221 at 60 fuel but aura with accuracy and pen buffs? Maybe throw in a timed extra damage mark target ability too. Then it will synergize well with other doctrinal abilities like shrek pfuzzies if you micro.
If the unit only has a token or limited aura and has great base DPS and performance on the tank people most likely will just use it as any other tank rather than in the command role.
The concept of a command tiger itself is kind of ridiculous to balance, because surely most people agree the design of a weak unit that provides buffs and can be targeted first is more balanced than a heavy tank that outguns anything it faces.
The balance team correctly realised this and it has a DPS trade off like you say... But obviously the tank is being ignored in its intended role. Because you know it's a frickin tiger tank
Maybe create a unique 221 at 60 fuel but aura with accuracy and pen buffs? Maybe throw in a timed extra damage mark target ability too. Then it will synergize well with other doctrinal abilities like shrek pfuzzies if you micro.
Let's unite the CoH2 community and make sure racism is
8 Mar 2020, 14:07 PM
#5
Posts: 186
Just remove it. Having the pintle upgrade is enough.
The aura and commander were probably put in when the mod team was over zealous in making a new unit.
Evidently both are op and not fair to have
Have you ever played the unit or tried it in cheatmode in different scenarios? ae you able to figure out on your won what would happen if the okw tiger lost its command aura?
In most cases it is a nerf unless you have about 40 - 50 popcap near your tiger that are able to counter whatever your tiger has troubles countering and is able to stand its ground near the tiger. The current problem of tigers especially with the commander upgrade is that it is able to counter allied defensive lines or at guns on its own whithout needing to back up. If the command aura would get removed it would most likely lead to blitzkrieg as vet1 ability which allows the tiger to escape easier or push into some tankdestroyers.
The tank commander is certainly strong and while the idea isn't too bad, certainly interesting it makes the tiger overperform.
I'd be glad if you could show me one piece of evidence where the okw tiger is evidently and consistently overperforming, but i suspect you might just have a case of slight bias to one side of this game.
8 Mar 2020, 14:22 PM
#6
Posts: 1794
Im not biased. Yes im around 800 ranked 4v4 player, but that dont make my opinion and experience any lesser. Tiger and panters are cancerous in that mode.
Have you ever played against vet3 Tiger that fire and fire and fire? It is not hard to get vet because of how durable and dangerous it is. Walk in, drop arty, wipe some infantry, takes some damage and back off.
Anyhow, tiger is getting nerf, so that should tell you if it's consistently op or not.
Have you ever played against vet3 Tiger that fire and fire and fire? It is not hard to get vet because of how durable and dangerous it is. Walk in, drop arty, wipe some infantry, takes some damage and back off.
Anyhow, tiger is getting nerf, so that should tell you if it's consistently op or not.
8 Mar 2020, 14:36 PM
#7
Posts: 810
Wrong concept
Bad design
Skills not worth using
Bad design
Skills not worth using
8 Mar 2020, 15:00 PM
#8
Posts: 1614 | Subs: 3
This is why I'm against buffs to the command P4 itself.
If the unit only has a token or limited aura and has great base DPS and performance on the tank people most likely will just use it as any other tank rather than in the command role.
The concept of a command tiger itself is kind of ridiculous to balance, because surely most people agree the design of a weak unit that provides buffs and can be targeted first is more balanced than a heavy tank that outguns anything it faces.
The balance team correctly realised this and it has a DPS trade off like you say... But obviously the tank is being ignored in its intended role. Because you know it's a frickin tiger tank
Maybe create a unique 221 at 60 fuel but aura with accuracy and pen buffs? Maybe throw in a timed extra damage mark target ability too. Then it will synergize well with other doctrinal abilities like shrek pfuzzies if you micro.
This +1
Like maybe replace Panzer Commander with an actual command vehicle and make the Tiger a normal Tiger. This could make the doctrine even stronger though, unless some adjustment is done like giving the Tiger the same tech requirements as the KT.
8 Mar 2020, 15:00 PM
#9
Posts: 857 | Subs: 2
The aura is bad and more or less a nerf for the OKW Tiger because the unit only get good vet at vet3.
After the Tiger nerfs the aura should be buffed or replaced by something useful.
After the Tiger nerfs the aura should be buffed or replaced by something useful.
8 Mar 2020, 16:26 PM
#10
Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1
This is why I'm against buffs to the command P4 itself.
The comparison is ridiculous. Command PzIV has one of the worse gun in the game.
On to pic the funny thing is the KV-8 and KV-2 have an ability with no penalties to vehicles and in away they are better "Command vehicles" than the "Command Tiger"
8 Mar 2020, 17:51 PM
#11
Posts: 1392
I played a little bit with Commado-Pnz4.
1. made the 0,9% def. aura beeing an ability for 20sec for 40mun.
2. gave it Vet1 smoke shell like Cromwell and StuG E stun-shot (share cool-down)
3. gave it Vet2 same as Panzer4J
4. with Vet3 it turnes to 0,8% def. aura for 20sec.
Now you got a better version, but also less OP.
1. made the 0,9% def. aura beeing an ability for 20sec for 40mun.
2. gave it Vet1 smoke shell like Cromwell and StuG E stun-shot (share cool-down)
3. gave it Vet2 same as Panzer4J
4. with Vet3 it turnes to 0,8% def. aura for 20sec.
Now you got a better version, but also less OP.
8 Mar 2020, 22:09 PM
#12
Posts: 731
I played a little bit with Commado-Pnz4.
1. made the 0,9% def. aura beeing an ability for 20sec for 40mun.
2. gave it Vet1 smoke shell like Cromwell and StuG E stun-shot (share cool-down)
3. gave it Vet2 same as Panzer4J
4. with Vet3 it turnes to 0,8% def. aura for 20sec.
Now you got a better version, but also less OP.
I thought maybe vet 1 can give a off-map barrage same as OKW panzer commander？
And vet 2 or 3 also can increase aura range？
Vet 2 upgrade to P4.J is very interesting idea，I like it
8 Mar 2020, 22:27 PM
#13
Posts: 1392
Vet 2 upgrade to P4.J is very interesting idea，I like it
It is the Vet of PnzIVJ, not an upgrade to it. It has complete different vets than normal PnzIV.
There are many things we can do with it. Main-thing is that people test it.
In my opinion most imporatant are a. that it stats with skirts; b. aura gets an ability; c. that it gets more passive boosts.
So it can be used with more aggresion, while aura becomes more difficult to use, but it can support you main units.
8 Mar 2020, 22:47 PM
#14
Posts: 731
It is the Vet of PnzIVJ, not an upgrade to it. It has complete different vets than normal PnzIV.
There are many things we can do with it. Main-thing is that people test it.
In my opinion most imporatant are a. that it stats with skirts; b. aura gets an ability; c. that it gets more passive boosts.
So it can be used with more aggresion, while aura becomes more difficult to use, but it can support you main units.
If like that I think commander panzer4 vet bouns like commander panther will better,less or no bouns for itself but aura will be stronger
8 Mar 2020, 22:56 PM
#15
Posts: 3166 | Subs: 6
After the Tiger nerfs the aura should be buffed or replaced by something useful.
To compensate the loss of the Panzer Commander (which we deemed too oppressive against ATGs because of the artillery), the Command Aura will lose the accuracy penalty, which should hopefully be enough to make using it more worthwile. Along with a vet 2 turret rotation buff for all Tiger variants.
9 Mar 2020, 00:03 AM
#16
Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1
To compensate the loss of the Panzer Commander (which we deemed too oppressive against ATGs because of the artillery), the Command Aura will lose the accuracy penalty, which should hopefully be enough to make using it more worthwile. Along with a vet 2 turret rotation buff for all Tiger variants.
Glad to see that my points about the Aura and vet 2 scatter bonuses to turret rotation are addressed.
9 Mar 2020, 00:07 AM
#17
Posts: 3588 | Subs: 3
To compensate the loss of the Panzer Commander (which we deemed too oppressive against ATGs because of the artillery), the Command Aura will lose the accuracy penalty, which should hopefully be enough to make using it more worthwile. Along with a vet 2 turret rotation buff for all Tiger variants.
Just remove all combat vet bonuses and nerf it in comparison to the Ostheer Tiger, then give it a couple abilities and aura buffs.
9 Mar 2020, 07:30 AM
#18
Posts: 810
Actually I don't understand this commander's concept
Western Front Germany did global offensive?
Is Hitler's delusion?
I first felt it when I saw the concept of this commander, but this commander picked up all good skills and only Tiger's skills didn't make sense at all
Why should Tiger buff nearby units for a fee?
Without that, Tiger destroys all his enemies at no cost
In addition, when Tiger uses the skill, Tiger himself receives a debuff.
Tiger buys debuff for a fee even though he can destroy all enemies by himself, without the skill
What a clever design
It is the result of the ridiculous idea that if the "command" is attached, it must be special and stronger
Western Front Germany did global offensive?
Is Hitler's delusion?
I first felt it when I saw the concept of this commander, but this commander picked up all good skills and only Tiger's skills didn't make sense at all
Why should Tiger buff nearby units for a fee?
Without that, Tiger destroys all his enemies at no cost
In addition, when Tiger uses the skill, Tiger himself receives a debuff.
Tiger buys debuff for a fee even though he can destroy all enemies by himself, without the skill
What a clever design
It is the result of the ridiculous idea that if the "command" is attached, it must be special and stronger
9 Mar 2020, 08:59 AM
#19
Posts: 1392
If like that I think commander panzer4 vet bouns like commander panther will better,less or no bouns for itself but aura will be stronger
Needs a lot of testing. ^^
9 Mar 2020, 09:33 AM
#20
Posts: 1794
To compensate the loss of the Panzer Commander (which we deemed too oppressive against ATGs because of the artillery), the Command Aura will lose the accuracy penalty, which should hopefully be enough to make using it more worthwile. Along with a vet 2 turret rotation buff for all Tiger variants.
Wow what a buff. Command aura and faster turret..sounds like is2 turret qualities with fast rof..seems scary
Axis whiners should be happy now in 4v4 command tiger + panther + panzer. Lol that's a nice arrange team possibilities...
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