In my opinion one of the biggest problems of Ostheer are their Lategame Infantry issues. The 5-men gren/panzergren mechanic leads more often than not to "1 shot of sherman/t34/cromwell/Bar Rifle / BRen Tommy and the squad loses 1 or 2 models instantly" so you have to retreat again and gained nothing. Hence no staying Power in lategame whatsoever.
So my Suggestion is, similar to the 7-man con squad, unlocking the option in t4 to add a 5th member to the pioneer squad with a further option TO REPLACE THE PIONEER MP40 WITH KAR98, so Osthheer has more infantry options and less frustrating cheese in lategame. This would also help make t4 more atttractive and the gameplay more diverse.
What are your thoughts on this?
Unusual Ostheer Suggestion
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8 Mar 2020, 08:51 AM
#1
Posts: 2272 | Subs: 1
8 Mar 2020, 09:10 AM
#2
Posts: 249
I don't exactly see what this would add for Ostheer.
You already have Grenadiers with K98's. They are much better at AI.
You already have Grenadiers with K98's. They are much better at AI.
8 Mar 2020, 09:22 AM
#3
Posts: 732
I remember someone design build T4 will reduce weapon squad population,I think it interesting idea,but I'd like to see it will reduce Pioneer Grenadier and PanzerGrenadier squad pop by 1,then in late game can have one more squad or something,so in total number it will not at disadvantage
8 Mar 2020, 09:26 AM
#4
Posts: 1217
I'm against that.
The factions are too similar already. 4 men squads are the Ost specific desing. It's supposed to be their weakness.
What is needed is a characteristic strenght for Ost and that was supposed to be an "additional" good performing tier in the form of T4. Unless that isn't buffed Ost will underperform.
The factions are too similar already. 4 men squads are the Ost specific desing. It's supposed to be their weakness.
What is needed is a characteristic strenght for Ost and that was supposed to be an "additional" good performing tier in the form of T4. Unless that isn't buffed Ost will underperform.
8 Mar 2020, 10:25 AM
#5
Posts: 65
Ostheer infantry can get buff proximity with support weapons againts indirect and Allied lmg at T4
8 Mar 2020, 11:06 AM
#6
Posts: 498
I still say that Ostheer's greatest weakness in team games is the lack of a forward retreat point. Yes, I'm aware that they have the greatest abundance of frontline reinforcement options (251 HT, vet 1 250 HT, command bunkers), but in the late game ostheer players are more often forced to fully retreat their squads as with a soft retreat they would loose them (due to enemy death blobs, artillery strikes, heavy tanks, etc). Getting your squads back to the frontline takes forever then on larger maps, leaving you with limited options to capture territories.
8 Mar 2020, 12:08 PM
#7
Posts: 2272 | Subs: 1
I don't exactly see what this would add for Ostheer.
You already have Grenadiers with K98's. They are much better at AI.
having a chance to cap a VP after the 40 minute mark?
8 Mar 2020, 13:15 PM
#8
Posts: 1392
I don't see a problem with inf (only Osttruppen and Pios maybe need some changes). Ostheer hasn't the long-range non-docs to fight versus allii-tankhunters and can't build enough tanks to be more immune to arty.
have | should
- StuG without turret = no flanking | needs a long-range ability to compensate
- Panther with turret, but bad AI = you need support | needs little less pop so you can have two of them with some inf. e.g. 17 to 15 allowing ~ an extra Pio or better support
have | should
- StuG without turret = no flanking | needs a long-range ability to compensate
- Panther with turret, but bad AI = you need support | needs little less pop so you can have two of them with some inf. e.g. 17 to 15 allowing ~ an extra Pio or better support
8 Mar 2020, 14:30 PM
#9
Posts: 810
It's just whining.
OST has no problem with late game.
The reason the OST infantry is a 4man squad is designed to fight with the support weapon team and has already received numerous buffs
Stop being greedy.
If you need a 5man squad, do OKW instead of Ost
OST has no problem with late game.
The reason the OST infantry is a 4man squad is designed to fight with the support weapon team and has already received numerous buffs
Stop being greedy.
If you need a 5man squad, do OKW instead of Ost
8 Mar 2020, 15:54 PM
#10
Posts: 327
1 shot of [...] cromwell [...] and the squad loses 1 or 2 models instantly"
What Cromwells have you been watching? Oo
8 Mar 2020, 16:31 PM
#11
Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1
It's just whining.
OST has no problem with late game.
The reason the OST infantry is a 4man squad is designed to fight with the support weapon team and has already received numerous buffs
Stop being greedy.
If you need a 5man squad, do OKW instead of Ost
Yet USF have better mainline infatry and equally good support weapons. Just check the number of support weapons used in the World championship.
9 Mar 2020, 07:22 AM
#12
Posts: 810
Yet USF have better mainline infatry and equally good support weapons. Just check the number of support weapons used in the World championship.
rifleman is better than grenadier? lol
So far, Ost users have complained about their faction's weakness and have taken a lot of buffs
lmg grenadier is very strong with long range fight, so they are 4 man squad + rifle grenade
Rifleman is very strong with short-mid range fight, but weak with long range + low accuracy
The Rifleman must be close to the enemy, forcing him to bleed MPs.
That's why they have to be durable and 5man squad
But grenadier? They fight the enemy with high dps in long range and are not forced to bleed MPs.
Grenadier can't beat a rifle?
Add PzG or use HMG42 well or add one more grenadier
This is not a balance issue, but L2P issue
Do you not understand how wrong it is to 'average' all the same without understanding the characteristics of the different units?
I repeat, but you always try to make the game boring
Will you be satisfied if you make all units have the same specifications and have different names?
9 Mar 2020, 07:50 AM
#13
Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1
That's why they have to be durable and 5man squad
Let me remind you what you wrote:
"The reason the OST infantry is a 4man squad is designed to fight with the support weapon team..."
and my point is that USF have 5 men squads with equally good support weapons.
Do you not understand how wrong it is to 'average' all the same without understanding the characteristics of the different units?
I repeat, but you always try to make the game boring
Will you be satisfied if you make all units have the same specifications and have different names?
I understand the different units quite good thank you. And I did not ask for grenadier to be 5 men nor did ask to become clones.
On the contrary I keep repeating that the units should designed around "relative positioning".
My point is that if USF continue to have access to great support weapons Ostheer infatry will continue to receive buff.
And that bring us to what I have said plenty of times, Ostheer do not need buff it is OKW/Soviet/USF that need nerfs.
9 Mar 2020, 08:52 AM
#14
Posts: 132
and my point is that USF have 5 men squads with equally good support weapons.
My point is that if USF continue to have access to great support weapons Ostheer infatry will continue to receive buff.
And that bring us to what I have said plenty of times, Ostheer do not need buff it is OKW/Soviet/USF that need nerfs.
Lol what?
1. OST mortar GrW 34 has 5 range more than US 81 mm mortar, adding to that the counter barrage ability.
2. Pak 40 has stun armor option, comprehend that, stun the target. Insane pen as compared to US. Although US at has increased view ability and AP rounds but that does not stops the tank or prevents it from using the smoke ability.
3. Mg 42. Do we really need to discuss this? AP rounds, arc, supporting infantry dps. T0 build.
4.
SNIPER
.
9 Mar 2020, 11:12 AM
#15
Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1
Lol what?
1. OST mortar GrW 34 has 5 range more than US 81 mm mortar, adding to that the counter barrage ability.
2. Pak 40 has stun armor option, comprehend that, stun the target. Insane pen as compared to US. Although US at has increased view ability and AP rounds but that does not stops the tank or prevents it from using the smoke ability.
3. Mg 42. Do we really need to discuss this? AP rounds, arc, supporting infantry dps. T0 build.
4.SNIPER
.
Check the world champion stats and see how many support weapons where build from USF.
And it does not matter who actually has better support weapons. The point is that Ostheer used to have an advantage in support weapon that cover their disadvantage in infatry.
That advantage has simply been decreased.
9 Mar 2020, 12:43 PM
#19
Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1
And at 1vs1, map control is so important that Player have to use more mainline infantry than weapon team
It's not because the weapon team's advantage had been reduced
Points here are that:
1) the advantage has been reduced
2) USF build as many or even more support weapons
9 Mar 2020, 13:04 PM
#20
Posts: 38
rifleman is better than grenadier? lol
Yes they are
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