5CP Puma is way too late

Jump back to quoted post6 Mar 2020, 20:11 PMT.R. Stormjäger

You do realize OKW has even faster access to the Puma than the Soviets have access to the T70 and it’s not an issue, right? T70 is perfectly viable vs okw despite the puma meta.

Jump back to quoted post6 Mar 2020, 20:18 PMKatitof

And as I have already said, they are paying for that with no healing

Jump back to quoted post6 Mar 2020, 20:07 PMKatitof

You've completely missed the point I was making. Shock units have short window of opportunity, if their hardcounters arrive too soon, they are either removed from the game or in need of a buff - do you want to have early puma at potential cost of even stronger T-70? Because its very unlikely it'll keep getting nerfed.

Jump back to quoted post6 Mar 2020, 20:07 PMKatitof

I dare you to find a singular post I made across last 2 years that would even remotely point to that.
If you can't do that, then keep the strawman away, there are no crows here to scare away.

Jump back to quoted post29 Sep 2019, 12:39 PMKatitof

Volks were 10mp more then cons for ages and they have roflstomped them without contest.
20mp difference for mainline is pretty significant.

Jump back to quoted post6 Mar 2020, 20:24 PMDiablo

You asked and you shall receive. I have never seen volks winning one on one engagement against rifleman if they both have same cover. Not even going to count 2 minute pineapples that you can throw. Link: https://www.coh2.org/topic/98344/rifles-overperforming/page/9

Jump back to quoted post6 Mar 2020, 20:26 PMKatitof

And... which part of that post makes you think I'm talking about rifles here?
Is it the part where I specifically name cons?

Jump back to quoted post29 Sep 2019, 12:34 PMLago

Riflemen are roughly 8% more expensive than Volksgrenadiers.

Your hyperbole is doing no favours to your credibility.

Jump back to quoted post6 Mar 2020, 18:34 PMSander93

Of course. But the circumstances have changed quite drastically since then. Now Cons (and so an abundance of AT grenades) are viable. UKF have snares. USF had a rework that made sideteching easier. Amongst other big meta changes. The doctrine itself has lost a significant amount of synergy because of the changes to the Command P4 (locking it behind tech) and will lose more because of the Puma's build time.

The doctrine will now more than ever be a gamble that might fill a gap in Ostheer's early/mid game but leaves practically nothing for the (transition into) the late game.

Plenty of changes to make it worth exploring options to let the Ostheer Puma make a return I think.
And as I said, it's a superficial change, so it's easily reverted if need be.

Jump back to quoted post6 Mar 2020, 20:23 PMT.R. Stormjäger

*Laughs in Feurestorm*

Jump back to quoted post6 Mar 2020, 20:24 PMDiablo

You asked and you shall receive. I have never seen volks winning one on one engagement against rifleman if they both have same cover. Not even going to count 2 minute pineapples that you can throw. Link: https://www.coh2.org/topic/98344/rifles-overperforming/page/9

Jump back to quoted post6 Mar 2020, 11:11 AMT.R. Stormjäger

Disclaimer: but vs the T70 you pick mobile defense to survivey.

Jump back to quoted post7 Mar 2020, 04:04 AMSupport Sapper

Go for luch/puma while picking feurestorm meaning you cant use flame munition, meaning there are still trade off.

Jump back to quoted post7 Mar 2020, 19:50 PMachpawel

Puma is not a hard counter to t70 imo. It is still very fragile especially to oorah plus snare, penals with at, guards with at. Add the fact that t70 penetrates it too. There are also at guns. I don't see a reason why puma should come later than t70. Especially because it doesn't give ostheer anything in terms of anty infantry.

Jump back to quoted post7 Mar 2020, 19:55 PMLago

GCS2's Mobidef meta is why.

Jump back to quoted post7 Mar 2020, 19:50 PMachpawel

Puma is not a hard counter to t70 imo.

Jump back to quoted post7 Mar 2020, 20:45 PMKatitof

And jackson is not a hardcounter to P4....
Anymore silly statements to drop?

Jump back to quoted post7 Mar 2020, 21:03 PMachpawel

You mentioned vacuum before. The amount of at on sov infantry makes a fragile puma have hard time, especially after at guns are out. You really have to be a good player to make it work. Please don't pick statements out of context.

Jump back to quoted post7 Mar 2020, 21:06 PMKatitof

You can use that argument about literally any kind of hardcounter and unit it hardcounters.

And it still doesn't change the fact that one unit counters another.
Puma is also anything but fragile.
1 in 25 small arms shots will pen it, other then that, you need same level of AT you'd need to kill T-70 if you want to get rid of it, except you can't use vehicles, because it counters them.