It sounds great on paper, but has it ever really been a meta defining unit?
In team games it was crazy OP with 20%. If it didn't effect your allies units they could probably bring back 20% reduction
Panzer IV Command Tank
7 Mar 2020, 19:07 PM
#21
Posts: 3423 | Subs: 1
In team games it was crazy OP with 20%. If it didn't effect your allies units they could probably bring back 20% reduction
7 Mar 2020, 19:08 PM
#22
Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2
It sounds great on paper, but has it ever really been a meta defining unit?
Believe it or not, some meta some niche. It always rounded up certain commanders.
Fortified armor: when your main issue with getting your Ele countered was mass Guard buttoning. Combined with Command tank it was unkillable. You traded offensive options from Jaeger armor (Stuka/Spotting scopes) for defensive ones meaning you relied more heavily in your teammate partner.
Blitzkrieg: when Stuka AT strafe was OP and Tiger was not needed (Lighting) and Jaeger Infantry is not what it currently is.
Festung armor: how to destroy old Airborne doctrine players.
Mobile defense: no need to go beyond that.
The problem is not the unit itself, it is that it breaks other teammates units.
My controls weren't working
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
7 Mar 2020, 19:29 PM
#23
Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1
The effect was there to counter old levels of lethality and only on owned territories which made the unit clunky to use.
It used to be applied to the whole sector at the time which made it map de pedant and OP.
As for the modifier it was fine for years and become a problem only with mobile defense.
For it to gain 20% DR back, it would have to follow one of this options:
-Munition based active ability. 10% Passive, increased to 20% for a certain duration of time.
-20% DR only on your own tanks. 10% only on allied ones and your own infantry (due to recent Gren change).
-+10% when units are on owned territories.
I basically agree with changes to auras and imo it should also scale with veterancy.
On the other hand the unit need to be looked at, it needs CP restriction removed , a better gun, vet bonuses/abilities suited for the unit, different XP value and so on...
For the gun it could use 2 modes direct maybe with a Kv-8 profile and indirect with stug-E at normal range.
7 Mar 2020, 19:33 PM
#24
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
As for the modifier it was fine for years and become a problem only with mobile defense.
That means, as per your own words regarding dshk, it was "hidden op", it was op all along, it simply wasn't utilized enough for people to see it until it was.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
7 Mar 2020, 19:35 PM
#25
Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1
That means, as per your own words regarding dshk, it was "hidden op", it was op all along, it simply wasn't utilized enough for people to see it until it was.
Not really, the commander was simply badly designed since it allow no tech access to both AT and AI units in faction with little whole in their roster.
The PzIV could not and still can not carry a commander.
Take for instance the Elephant commander where Jagger armored commander see allot more use than the Fortified armor commander that provides an C. PzIV.
7 Mar 2020, 19:38 PM
#26
Posts: 3260
The problem is not the unit itself, it is that it breaks other teammates units.
So make it only affect your units.
7 Mar 2020, 19:42 PM
#27
Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1
Believe it or not, some meta some niche. It always rounded up certain commanders.
Fortified armor: when your main issue with getting your Ele countered was mass Guard buttoning. ...
Did panzer tactician fix protect you from button anyway?
7 Mar 2020, 20:17 PM
#28
Posts: 306
Did panzer tactician fix protect you from button anyway?
Pz tactican basically stops button instantly
FIRE AND TERROR PLAYERCARD https://www.coh2.org/ladders/playercard/steamid/76561198321057937
7 Mar 2020, 21:21 PM
#29
Posts: 731
Emmm...what if give commander tank more combat effectiveness and more ability like artillery officer？
Default model change to P4J with panzer commander（+10m sight and can call barrage）and aura still 10%,increase cost to about 450MP+150fuel
And vet bouns will buff aura or give more ability and less buff for itself
Default model change to P4J with panzer commander（+10m sight and can call barrage）and aura still 10%,increase cost to about 450MP+150fuel
And vet bouns will buff aura or give more ability and less buff for itself
7 Mar 2020, 22:20 PM
#30
Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2
So make it only affect your units.
It was suggested when they tuned down the bonus from 20%. But basically teamgame people complained.
My controls weren't working
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
7 Mar 2020, 23:46 PM
#31
Posts: 3423 | Subs: 1
It was suggested when they tuned down the bonus from 20%. But basically teamgame people complained.
But teamgames is also the only place the unit was ever a problem imo. The value of the unit is just way higher
7 Mar 2020, 23:51 PM
#32
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
But teamgames is also the only place the unit was ever a problem imo. The value of the unit is just way higher
It was problematic in 1v1 too.
It simply was fucking overpowering insane in team games.
Hell, in 2v2 it already completely imbalanced the games when OKW was treated with it.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
8 Mar 2020, 03:54 AM
#33
Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2
But teamgames is also the only place the unit was ever a problem imo. The value of the unit is just way higher
Outside of MobiDef meta yes.
But it's like removing a "cooperative" component from the game. Should all auras only apply to your own units? Should medics only heal your troops?
My controls weren't working
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
8 Mar 2020, 09:33 AM
#34
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
Outside of MobiDef meta yes.
But it's like removing a "cooperative" component from the game. Should all auras only apply to your own units? Should medics only heal your troops?
Well, british command vehicle doesn't buff allies so...
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
8 Mar 2020, 17:57 PM
#35
Posts: 1392
I played a little bit with Commado-Pnz4.
1. made the 0,9% def. aura beeing an ability for 20sec for 40mun.
2. gave it Vet1 smoke shell like Cromwell and StuG E stun-shot (share cool-down)
3. gave it Vet2 same as Panzer4J
4. with Vet3 it turnes to 0,8% def. aura for 20sec.
5. let it start with skirts-armor
Now you got a better version, but also less OP.
1. made the 0,9% def. aura beeing an ability for 20sec for 40mun.
2. gave it Vet1 smoke shell like Cromwell and StuG E stun-shot (share cool-down)
3. gave it Vet2 same as Panzer4J
4. with Vet3 it turnes to 0,8% def. aura for 20sec.
5. let it start with skirts-armor
Now you got a better version, but also less OP.
8 Mar 2020, 22:52 PM
#36
Posts: 3423 | Subs: 1
Should all auras only apply to your own units? Should medics only heal your troops?
I get the sentiment, but i think received damage aura is unique and strong enough to be seperated from those
8 Mar 2020, 23:23 PM
#37
92 
Posts: 374
Is this a good tank worth calling n?
I like the defensive bonus it provides, I like how it can fight infantry and certain light vehicles
I don't like that it doesn't get a coaxial mg upgrade
Is this vehicle in a good place?
simple answer. and the answer is yes
8 Mar 2020, 23:33 PM
#38
Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2
I get the sentiment, but i think received damage aura is unique and strong enough to be seperated from those
From a balance point of view i agree.
From a design point not.
My controls weren't working
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
8 Mar 2020, 23:54 PM
#39
Posts: 3423 | Subs: 1
From a balance point of view i agree.
From a design point not.
I think your idea of making it stronger for your own units and a little weaker for your allies is solid
9 Mar 2020, 09:06 AM
#40
Posts: 1392
That could be made by an ability; I think. Like I am testing at the moment. So you also know the timing of it.
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