Is the T70 OP?

Arguing about the semantics does not lead us anywhere.

It not semantics it is of essence. Some light vehicles can be killed be small arm fire, most light tanks can not, these vehicle are of different category. One is forced to invest into anti vehicle counters vs light Tanks.

Both OKWs LVs and the T70 arrive according to their cost and performance. There might be slight rebalances with some units but all in all it is okay.

And this is the point. T-70 should cost less and be less lethal. If that means that OKW T2 should also be timed later so bit it.

I'm actually not sure what the current argument is about. The T70 is a very strong unit, but it also has the shortest time of all LVs where it can roam freely. OKW T2 has the perfect counter to it. Also the T1 FHT can significantly damage a T70.

Again is more about Ostheer than OKW

OST is a bit on the short end since zhe T70 both amplifies the weakness of OST (4 man squads vs high wipe potential of the T70) and the lack of a LV counter. I find that a supported 222 can do the job decently. The autocanon can do decent damage especially vs the side armor. And no SOV player would dive his expensive T70 to kill a 222. It takes a lot more micro to pull off though. The other options OST has is a StuG rush or depensing on the map Panzerschrecks. Tellers can protect vs dives but it also requires a lot of skill and micro to bait units onto mines.

So, final conlusion of mine:
T70 is strong, but no major readjustments needed. OKW can counter the unit perfectly, OST might need a slight rework, but I think this is not specific due to the T70 but more the faction's power spikes in general.

So lets tone down these power spikes and improve the game.

Double post but also I like the idea of earlier con buffs with a T70 nerf, Soviets need options rather than depending on penals+doctrinal light at gun.

Especially against OKW when their light vehicles are what carries the sovs midgame right now.

The thing is ost has enough tools to deal with t70 in 1v1 maps. And now that pak40 got a good buff, no excuse against allies LV.

Simply a P4 is enough to send t70 into pits of darthness

It not semantics it is of essence. Some light vehicles can be killed be small arm fire, most light tanks can not, these vehicle are of different category. One is forced to invest into anti vehicle counters vs light Tanks.


And this is the point. T-70 should cost less and be less lethal. If that means that OKW T2 should also be timed later so bit it.


Again is more about Ostheer than OKW


So lets tone down these power spikes and improve the game.

Let's not argue about semantics. If people talked about the LV phase the T70 was always included, and while you might make a difference between these units, the majority of the forum does not.

I don't see the point why the T70 should be changed (I'd even argue it would be an overall nerf regarding SOV faction composition) and why OKW T2 should be delayed. Both does not make sense. OKW T2 comes at a perfectly fine timing. If people come to the conclusion that something has to be done about the T70, then be it. But at the moment I am not convinced that the issue is that huge.

Also in general power spikes are important to keep the battle flowing. Of course it should not be so severe that this unit wins the game for you, but if every factions techs to about the same power level at the same time there is no use in teching at all from a design point of view.
To get back to the T70: T70 is fine against OKW, the respective OKW power level at the time the T70 comes out is fine for all three Allied factions. The only setup where I can see potential trouble is OST. So just give OST better tools to deal with a T70. Otherwise it would likely mean that all other factions need to be rebalanced. Of course this assumes that the T70 is atm fine for it's cost and timing (which I think it is)

Let's not argue about semantics. If people talked about the LV phase the T70 was always included, and while you might make a difference between these units, the majority of the forum does not.

I am not arguing semantics. The argument was that it "arrives way later than all other light vehicles in the game" and I explained the reason. Units that immune to small arm fire (like light tanks Stuart/T-70)and can take AP rounds should arrive late and their timing should not be compared with unit that die to small arm fire.

T-70 with 70 frontal armor has x140% more armor than Luch and Stuart with 80 has x160% more armor.

I don't see the point why the T70 should be changed (I'd even argue it would be an overall nerf regarding SOV faction composition) and why OKW T2 should be delayed. Both does not make sense.

Because the unit is OP both creating problem to ostheer and making Soviet T3 option less disable.

Soviet are currently OP vs Ostheer and nerfing them would solve more problem than it would create.

OKW T2 comes at a perfectly fine timing. If people come to the conclusion that something has to be done about the T70, then be it. But at the moment I am not convinced that the issue is that huge.

Again T2 performance makes OKW T1 alternative far less attractive.

OKW are currently OP vs UKF and nerfing them would solve more problem than it would create.

Also in general power spikes are important to keep the battle flowing. Of course it should not be so severe that this unit wins the game for you, but if every factions techs to about the same power level at the same time there is no use in teching at all from a design point of view.

I did not argued that Power spike should be removed, they should thou be toned because they can easily lead to snowball effects as you also say.

To get back to the T70: T70 is fine against OKW, the respective OKW power level at the time the T70 comes out is fine for all three Allied factions. The only setup where I can see potential trouble is OST. So just give OST better tools to deal with a T70. Otherwise it would likely mean that all other factions need to be rebalanced. Of course this assumes that the T70 is atm fine for it's cost and timing (which I think it is)

And the both Ostheer and UKF are having trouble so instead of buffing these faction it is time to nerf OKW/Soviets/USF.

It not a light vehicle it is a light tank. If it arrives later it arrives later than OKW vehicles so delay those vehicles.

Lower the price of the T2 truck so it set up in the same time as T1 and have vehicle production (puma? Stuka?)require engineers. Now Puma comes later.


This is OKW issue.

A tank is a vehicle. Not all vehicles are tank. A T70 is both, a 222 or AA HT is not. You are discussing semantics.

And you keep ignoring the other points i make and you try to make it sound as it is an OKW issue as well.
It arrives later than ALL OTHER FACTIONS light vehicles/tanks due to teching placement.

And for some reason you are asking for a further buff to OKW T2 when no one opens up with a Pumas as first option unless been based camped against USF and they already have a Stuart on the field. Unless you forgot to include the P2, that's a really stupid idea. Instead of 6 mins P2 we have 5 mins P2.


You want to rework 4 factions light vehicle timing, fuel costs, upgrades, mp expenditure to accommodate to what you consider is the ideal design of Ostheer and timings. It's not just OKW, USF and UKF have similar timings with their lights.

A tank is a vehicle. Not all vehicles are tank. A T70 is both, a 222 or AA HT is not. You are discussing semantics.

I am not I am simply point out that both the T-70 and the Stuart are immune to small arm fire and ignore HMG AP rounds.

And you keep ignoring the other points i make and you try to make it sound as it is an OKW issue as well.
It arrives later than ALL OTHER FACTIONS light vehicles/tanks due to teching placement.

And once more that is not a problem. Reduce price so it can come early tone down and delay OKW Puma and it will still be fine.

Then you will have a light vehicle phase and after that a light tank phase.

And for some reason you are asking for a further buff to OKW T2 when no one opens up with a Pumas as first option unless been based camped against USF and they already have a Stuart on the field. Unless you forgot to include the P2, that's a really stupid idea. Instead of 6 mins P2 we have 5 mins P2.

No I am not asking for buff to T2. I am asking for OKW truck to arrive at the same time so that Faust timing and support weapons access would be the same. The T2 build could include more support weapons/weapons upgrades and not have to rush LV. The price and/or timing of the engineer upgrade can be adjusted to fix any timing/cost issues.

The idea is that tech arrives at the same time regardless of route and the timing of vehicles can remain the same of adjusted as needed.

You want to rework 4 factions light vehicle timing, fuel costs, upgrades, mp expenditure to accommodate to what you consider is the ideal design of Ostheer and timings. It's not just OKW, USF and UKF have similar timings with their lights.

Ideally yes because currently it is mess.

To be honest Vipper it does not make sense arguing if your point of view is basucally reworking tech and timings of basically all factions is fine to fix one unit. It's not feasible for this game and not a good strategy to fix anything at all. Especially when apparently most people agree that the timings of other factions is fine.
The T70 is not a perfectly designed unit, but the issues are not large enough that it would warrant huge reworks. If this really is your opinion, then we're just too far apart to be able to reach any insight and even less agreement

To be honest Vipper it does not make sense arguing if your point of view is basucally reworking tech and timings of basically all factions is fine to fix one unit. It's not feasible for this game and not a good strategy to fix anything at all. Especially when apparently most people agree that the timings of other factions is fine.
The T70 is not a perfectly designed unit, but the issues are not large enough that it would warrant huge reworks. If this really is your opinion, then we're just too far apart to be able to reach any insight and even less agreement

Well it not just one unit, the T-70.

The 222 currently is OP because "it has to be". The same goes nearly most cars (WC51, m20, m3).

People also complain about the Stuart and so on.

The timing of many units should be delayed in order for this units to payback for the resources invested in them.

It also part of the balance issue Ostheer is facing.

I would also say another factor is how you define the term "OP", do you think it means overpowered or over performing which is maybe more like borderline overpowered or maybe only slightly stronger than it should be. Versus the unit being overpowered meaning it needs significant nerfs.

I would also say another factor is how you define the term "OP", do you think it means overpowered or over performing which is maybe more like borderline overpowered or maybe only slightly stronger than it should be. Versus the unit being overpowered meaning it needs significant nerfs.

I personally use the term over performing for cost.