The current patch is restoring the Mobidef Puma to its previous state. While a lot of other things have changed, it does rehighlight an issue with Panzer Tactician: it's a huge powerspike for Ostheer T2.
Ninja smoke is less of an issue in the mid game, but it's hugely impactful early on in 1v1 when there's a lot less AT on the field.
There's an easy fix for it though: bump up Panzer Tactician a few CPs. It still provides its extra survivability to Panzer IVs and the like, but you don't get the same oppressive early game Flamer HTs. (They'll still gain smoke if they survive to the midgame, though).
I personally think CP5's the place to go for (so the Ostheer Puma starts with smoke), but I've added everything below it to the poll. There's even CP1 and CP0 if you for some reason think Panzer Tactician needs to be buffed.
This would consistute a 1v1 nerf to a faction that really doesn't need a 1v1 nerf, but the balance direction of the game for the last few years is not relying on doctrines to fill holes in factions. Ostheer's nondoctrinal problems should have nondoctrinal solutions, which I have another thread for if you're interested. https://www.coh2.org/topic/103763/ostheer-tech-restructure
Panzer Tactician To CP5
22 Feb 2020, 15:35 PM
#1
Posts: 3260
22 Feb 2020, 15:36 PM
#2
Posts: 1794
I vote 5 CP. Coz why not?
22 Feb 2020, 15:37 PM
#3
Posts: 2358
If it comes with puma, I'm all in
22 Feb 2020, 15:40 PM
#4
Posts: 3588 | Subs: 3
Leave as is, but increase cooldown time so it’s not as spammable.
22 Feb 2020, 15:40 PM
#5
Posts: 3260
Leave as is, but increase cooldown time so it’s not as spammable.
What difference would that make? You only use it once per engagement anyway.
22 Feb 2020, 15:42 PM
#6
Posts: 3588 | Subs: 3
What difference would that make? You only use it once per engagement anyway.
And that’s an issue because....
And UKF smoke shells/USF smoke canisters aren’t an issue like Ost smoke because...
22 Feb 2020, 15:50 PM
#7
Posts: 1614 | Subs: 3
Don't agree with nerfing Panzer Tactician just to tone down a single doctrine. Plenty of "weaker" doctrines have it without other helpful tools in the early-mid game like Festung Armor and Fortified Armor, they'Il be in an even weaker state if such a change goes through.
Better just replace Panzer Tactician with Smoke Bombs on Mobile Defense.
Better just replace Panzer Tactician with Smoke Bombs on Mobile Defense.
22 Feb 2020, 15:52 PM
#8
Posts: 3588 | Subs: 3
Better just replace Panzer Tactician with Smoke Bombs on Mobile Defense.
Yes please, I’d definitely use Mobile Defense if it got buffed like that.
22 Feb 2020, 16:09 PM
#9
Posts: 1614 | Subs: 3
Yes please, I’d definitely use Mobile Defense if it got buffed like that.
As long as it reduces synergy between T2 and the Puma. Smoke Bombs is a good ability for sure.
22 Feb 2020, 18:35 PM
#10
Posts: 1794
yes smoke bombs as in dropped smoke and not plane smokes
plane smoke = free vision. no go!
5cp and dropped smoke sounds about right.
plane smoke = free vision. no go!
5cp and dropped smoke sounds about right.
22 Feb 2020, 18:37 PM
#11
Posts: 857 | Subs: 2
Why nerfing Panzer tactian for all commanders although its only problematic in Mobile Defense? Bad idea imo. WOuld be better to simply replace Pancer Tactician with Stuka Smoke drop then.
22 Feb 2020, 18:43 PM
#12
Posts: 1794
Why nerfing Panzer tactian for all commanders although its only problematic in Mobile Defense? Bad idea imo. WOuld be better to simply replace Pancer Tactician with Stuka Smoke drop then.
because panzer tac is cheesy get out of jail card.
and no stuka smoke, that is free vision.
make it mortar smoke.
in fact replace all paztac with mortar smoke. problems solved.
22 Feb 2020, 18:55 PM
#13
Posts: 857 | Subs: 2
because panzer tac is cheesy get out of jail card.
and no stuka smoke, that is free vision.
make it mortar smoke.
in fact replace all paztac with mortar smoke. problems solved.
Sure, why not nerf one of the best commander abilities from the weakest faction to the ground?
22 Feb 2020, 19:07 PM
#14
Posts: 1794
Sure, why not nerf one of the best commander abilities from the weakest faction to the ground?
as you said, it is the best. we cannot have the bestest, we want balanced approach.
as of now, it is too easy to escape with tigers and panthers.
a delayed mortar smoke with green flare warning is much more tactical.
22 Feb 2020, 20:23 PM
#15
Posts: 4183 | Subs: 4
32CP isn’t an option? 
22 Feb 2020, 21:05 PM
#16
Posts: 3260
23 Feb 2020, 07:33 AM
#17
Posts: 810
I don't know why you want to repeat the nightmare
Puma+ panzer tactiction + CPz4 should not be with each other
Puma + CPz4 or Puma + Pazner tactiction
One of three must be left out
I approve of being buffed so that Puma can be used again, but I refuse to repeat nightmares
Puma+ panzer tactiction + CPz4 should not be with each other
Puma + CPz4 or Puma + Pazner tactiction
One of three must be left out
I approve of being buffed so that Puma can be used again, but I refuse to repeat nightmares
23 Feb 2020, 07:55 AM
#18
Posts: 3423 | Subs: 1
And UKF smoke shells/USF smoke canisters aren’t an issue like Ost smoke because...
Cause most of them aren't instantaneous and its not on every vehicle the faction possesses? Its not even on half of their vehicles
And almost all the vehicles its on are in t4. This thread is literally about moving it to cp5, which is still earlier than most of those vehicles, except m20 and AEC
23 Feb 2020, 15:13 PM
#19
Posts: 2358
Cause most of them aren't instantaneous and its not on every vehicle the faction possesses? Its not even on half of their vehicles
And almost all the vehicles its on are in t4. This thread is literally about moving it to cp5, which is still earlier than most of those vehicles, except m20 and AEC
But do you alse admit that Pz4 is a crutch unit, a slow smoke is kind of useless in tight situations.
If you had a T70 with a Pz Tactician like smoke OR a smoke canisters with a minor delay, how useful would each one be? Probably both are good but there is no doubt that one is much more useful than the other.
With an useful ability you could push the little T70 to unforseen situations, maybe doubling its worth. But now, if that crutch unit/moment is the only "fair" advantage you can get on a match. Is it imba? (Think twice before answer)
Dont get me wrong, pz tactician is a very good commander ability, the fact it gives smokes to 222 is also way too good.
23 Feb 2020, 16:00 PM
#20
Posts: 833
I think you need to be careful otherwise you're just making underutilized doctrines like mobile defence worse. So a nerf to PT is unwise.
It definitely should not be in doctrines with tigers though, the tiger is already the best heavy. Pixie dust smoke is just the icing on the cake. It's like giving the IS-2 mark target, sure mark target is balanced but giving it to an IS-2 just screws with heavy balance.
Maybe swap it with an infantry call in.
It definitely should not be in doctrines with tigers though, the tiger is already the best heavy. Pixie dust smoke is just the icing on the cake. It's like giving the IS-2 mark target, sure mark target is balanced but giving it to an IS-2 just screws with heavy balance.
Maybe swap it with an infantry call in.
Let's unite the CoH2 community and make sure racism is
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